Policy on Junior Assurers / Members
PoJAM went to DRAFT p20100131
Go to REAL DRAFT PoJAM for the real info
this document now contains outdated / deprecated info
Status: WIP ... which means the below is NOT POLICY but is a future attempt.
- Date started: 2009-05-17
- Last change: 20090915
See alternate and newer effort at PoJAM2.
1.2 This document is a subsidiary policy under Assurance Policy. It is intended for policy track.
- Junior is a person under 18. A Junior is probably a legal minor and is therefore not empowered by the local laws to enter into the CCA without assistance.
In my opinion, a minor who is capable of entering into a legally binding contract in his or her jurisdiction should not be covered at all by this policy, they should be just like every other assurance, without discrimination. MarkLipscombe
My main point is that we shouldn't restrict people who can legally enter into a contract at all. They should be specifically excluded from PoJAM -- it should be only a policy that increases access to CAcert's certificates, not reduces it by imposing artificial limitations on someone else's definition. MarkLipscombe
"under 18" is too short, better: "which has not reached an age of 18 years." Gero Treuner
- Parent. A competent adult that is legally responsible under local law for the Junior. E.g., a natural or adopted parent, or a legal guardian. Unless otherwise stated, the term Parent is used to cover all forms of legally responsible Adult.
- Guardian. The person who is co-signatory with the Junior for CAcert purposes. This is the person who enters into Arbitration with the Junior. The Guardian may be a parent or other responsible person such as an Assurer who takes on the additional responsibility within CAcert.
Note: we need a better term because Guardian now has two meanings....
1. Appliance to Members
1.1. This policy applies to all Members of the CAcert Community that are under the age of 18.
1.2. From the moment the member reaches the age of 18 this policy is not longer applicable. All limitations caused by this policy expire on the 18th birthday of the Member. Nevertheless the Member is still bound by all other policies he was bound by before that date.
1.3 Although variations exist in different countries, CAcert works to a principle of no discrimination Principles and therefore imposes the same view across all countries.
2. Limitation of membership
2.1. The minimum age to join the CAcert community (to become CAcert member) is 10 years.
2.2. Assurer status may only be granted if the user is at least 14 years old. Other preliminaries for the Assurer status set up by other policies are untouched. Combining AP and this policy, a Junior Assurer is a CAcert member with 100 Assurance Points, has passed the CATS challenge, and is between the age of 14 and 18 years.
2.3. A Junior Assurer can issue a maximum of 10 Assurance Points to an assuree, independent of how many Experience Points the Junior already has. The Experience Points awarded to the Junior Assurer are untouched.
2.4. The junior member’s account is disabled for issuing personalized certificates and assuring other members until a guardian states to take responsibility for this member (see below).
or the junior member reaches the age of 18? BernhardFröhlich
3. Becoming a Junior Member of CAcert
3.1. A junior person (a "minor") that wants to become member of CAcert needs to be accompanied by a Guardian which will be responsible for the junior member’s account.
Does the guardian have to be CAcert member? I guess that's not necessary... BernhardFröhlich
It might be worth considering to allow a written consent of the guardian instead of personal appearence. It surely has drawbacks, but personal appearence of a guardian will probably rule out the great majority of potential junior members, especially the older ones! BernhardFröhlich
3.2. The assurance of the junior member is done according to the Assurance Policy (=> COD X) enhanced by:
- some identity information of the Guardian (Name and date of birth) which have to be checked by the Assurer.
- a statement given and signed by the guardian stating that he accepts and enters the CCA and takes full responsibility for this junior member account as long as this policy applies
- an email address of the guardian to contact him or her.
3.3. If the accompanying Guardian is not the parent or legal guardian of the junior member the Assurer has to inform the parent of the applicant of the applied CAcert membership.
See discussion section
3.4. After the assurance the Assurer makes a reliable statement towards CAcert containing the additional information requested from the accompanying guardian as well as the statement that he met this guardian in person and checked the guardian’s details as described in section 3.2.a.
3.5. After CAcert received the Assurer’s reliable statement the additional information is stored safely and the junior member’s account is enabled to issue personalized certificates and to issue points to other members (if all preliminaries for the Assurer status are fulfilled).
Iang: this implies that the system has to change such that there are additional declarations in the Assurance completion process?
4. Storing guardians information
4.1. The information of the guardian are kept with CAcert as long as the membership of the (junior) member persists.
4.1. The information of the guardian are kept with CAcert for 2 years from the time the member reaches the age of 18 or the membership is terminated (whichever comes first).
Iang: I'd say the latter, because cases are always about the past. And typically, in the last 2 years, which is the certificate issuance time.
Iang: termination is under the Arbitrator, I don't think it is necessary to set the conditions there. However it may be useful, if we know what we want.
We need to document the likely impact on CAP forms and procedures. Here are some thought experiments.......
The number of points allocated to the junior should include any assessment as to the reliability of the statement of co-signatory.
Initial Assurance of a Junior
Parent. The Junior must record on the CAP form the signature of the Parent / legal Guardian (parent/assurer? pending that discussion). The Assurer should take any opportunity to verify this statement, and so note it on the form.
Other. Where the co-signer on the form is another, such as mentioned in the list, the Assurer should verify the status, and brief the co-signer on the consequences. This could be done over telephone.
Self. Where the Assurer is the co-signer, this should be noted.
Further Assurances of a Junior
The Junior should note on the CAP form who the Guardian is, and type (parent/assurer? pending that discussion). The Assurer should take any opportunity to verify this statement, and so note it on the form.
Assurance by a Junior Assurer
The Junior Assurer notes on the CAP form type and name of Guardian.
Arbitration with Juniors needs to take into account that a local court may find the CCA to be improperly imposed. Some understanding of this risk should be taken, but Arbitrators should be careful not to weaken the web of trust on this basis. Therefore, more care should be taken in explaining and ensuring the spirit of the CCA is maintained.
Parents may be concerned about the impact of an Arbitration. Parents who are not Guardians under this policy may be given special status as Observers. The Arbitrator may appoint a senior Assurer to advise the Parent on the nature of the Community.
A ruling should be tested by comparing it to an adult scenario.
The counter-situation to a weak CCA agreement is that if a person (of any age) feels the CCA to be inappropriate, then they have not entered into the Community. The Arbitrator is at liberty to terminate the CCA with a Member, if there is a sustainable view that it is inappropriate. Such termination should include measures needed to repair the web of trust.
D I S C U S S I O N
All below is outside the policy, discussion only:
Problem of verifying a guardian
ted: There probably is no way for an Assurer to verify the statement that someone is a legal guardian of a minor.
Iang: probably there is no efficient way, workable across the world.
Iang: probably the same applies to parents. How does one show parentage? Typically, this is the whole Assurance problem all over again: birth certificates, and validation between the birth certificates and identity dox of the parent and child.
This probably doesn't matter much if:
ted: the guardian makes the statement and is of legal age. If s/he lied that's the one we'll get back on.
Iang: the guardian is a CAcert Assurer. (Or even a fully Assured Member, but why complicate matters in the short term?)
So the guardian has to be of legal age and has to sign a statement that s/he is legal guardian of the (prospective) junior member. Problem solved?
What happens if the teacher signs the form, taking responsibility?
Problem of who can be a guardian
Iang: I see four cases:
- Parent. Should be simple and efficient, because this is standard. So, a simple countersigning and acknowledgement of CCA and parentage should be fine.
- Legal Guardian: Should be the same as parenting, IMO.
- CAcert Assurer: as an Assurer, we can rely on the statement.
- So a simple countersigning should be enough.
- should not be a Junior Assurer.
- should the Guardian be a full (50 Experience Points) Assurer?
- Not a Parent / Legal Guardian or CAcert Assurer:
- e.g., Teacher or Pastor/Preach or sports club person etc.
- one view is that this person could join and solve the problem.
- another view is Teachers take on total responsibility for Juniors anyway, why not this?
- perhaps the Assurer must make a judgement call as to whether the Guardian is suitable or not?
- this is where a personal appearance before the Assurer be made, so an in-person witnessing is done?
Gero Treuner: I think that we need the legal guardian, independent of parents. Parents are common, but in some cases exactly on or both are not the legal guardian and are not given rights to make statements regarding the junior. An assurer has little opportunity to check whether a person is a legal guardian. In Germany this can be a court, and no real person. What should be done IMO:
- remove the term "parent"
- add a non-natural person like a court to the list of possible legal guardians
- require a statement that a person is a legal guardian in section 3.2. Then there is a declaration which can be checked in case of arbitration.
What exactly is being done here?
- CAP form carries:
- name of the Guardian?
- countersignature of Guardian?
- statement that the Guardian agrees to the CCA?
- which CAP form?
- just the first?
- until the Junior has 100 points?
- the name of the Guardian
- could be on all CAP forms of the Junior
- and could be checked by the Assurer in the Assurance Process
- so the Name of the Guardian enters into the Assurance Statement?
Resignation of Guardian
How does a Guardian resign? File dispute I guess. But this will be vexatious to them if there is no clear path. Perhaps we need an easier path here.