Arbitrations/Meetings/ATAgendaandMinutes-20100818

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Arbitration Team Meeting 2010-08-18

1 Preliminaries
- 1.1 Chair opens the Committee Meeting
- 1.2 Accept the Minutes Minutes of the last Arbitration Team Meeting 2010-08-03 (u60)
2 Businesses - Important Note: Acceptance of Businesses 48 Hours before beginning of Arbitration Team Meeting latest!
- 2.1 First preview of new Arbitration Mgmt System added by UlrichSchroeter
  - Regarding Arbitration team meeting April 28th, topic 2.1 How to handle the arbitration cases wiki (Continued from meeting 2010-03-17) that was added by Hans Verbeek, PD wants to present a software to handle arbitration cases with closed and public parts. Currently PD is on vacation, so no presentation will happen. We have to live with the current system: OTRS, Mailing List, Wiki, Email and can't relay on a new system that will hopefuly solve all our problems, therefor the current Arbitration backlog is too high.
- 2.2 Arbitration - review list of active Arbitrators added by UlrichSchroeter
  - This topic has been added to the next Board Meeting 2010-08-29. Comments ? Thoughts ? Inputs for DRO ?
- 2.3 Review AGM 2010 Arbitration Team Report added by UlrichSchroeter
  - Board requested Team Reports for the upcoming AGM (see also top 2.2 from Arbitration Team Meeting 2010-07-21. The AGM 2010 Arbitration Team Report 2009-2010 needs to be reviewed.
- 2.4 Top Four added by YourName - Comment: Replace "Top Four" by Title of Top and add your Name
  - Additional Inputs - Comment: Replace "Additional Inputs"by Description of Top, Description of Reason-Why/Purpose, Additional Comments, Additional Documents, Additional Links, if useful for other Arbitration Team Members to prepare for Arbitration Team Meeting.
- 2.5 Top Five added by YourName - Comment: Replace "Top Five" by Title of Top and add your Name
  - Additional Inputs - Comment: Replace "Additional Inputs"by Description of Top, Description of Reason-Why/Purpose, Additional Comments, Additional Documents, Additional Links, if useful for other Arbitration Team Members to prepare for Arbitration Team Meeting.
- et cetera
3 Question Time - Important Note: Questions from CAcert.org Community Members can be added until beginning of Arbitration Team Meeting! As well questions can be asked at "Question Time", without added Question here
- 3.1 "Question One" added by YourName - Comment: Replace "Question One" by Your Question and add your Name
- et cetera
4 Closing
- 4.1 Confirm next Arbitration Team Meeting: Usually every 1st Tuesday and the 3rd Wednesday of the month, 20:00 CEST (18 UTC).
  - Tuesday, September 7th, 21 CEST, 19 UTC
- 4.2 Chair closes the Arbitration Team Meeting
- 4.3 Preparation of Minutes

Minutes - Arbitration Team Meeting 2010-08-18

Attendees: Mario, Hans, Martin, Lambert, Alexander, Uli
20:00 Chair opens the meeting
Top 1.2 Accept the Minutes of the last Arbitration Team Meeting 2010-08-03
- why attendees aren't included in the minutes?
  - as we use nicks here ... and about the overall privacy issues discussed ... I've only counted the attendees
  - will add attendees to the next minutes
- Summary: 1 aye, 2 abstain, no objection. Accepted
Top 2.1 First preview of new Arbitration Mgmt System
- Arbitration team meeting April 28th, topic 2.1 How to handle the arbitration cases wiki (Continued from meeting 2010-03-17) that was added by Hans Verbeek, PD wants to present a software to handle arbitration cases with closed and public parts. Currently PD is on vacation, so no presentation will happen. We have to live with the current system: OTRS, Mailing List, Wiki, Email and can't relay on a new system that will hopefuly solve all our problems
- Forget the new system. Make the current wiki private, so that we can add all info we want. Create a new public part of the wiki, where we will only publish the results
- we're awaiting now about 3 months with this topic on every arbteam meeting ... if one day this system is up and running for a first preview, we can put it on top again ... but until than, we have to deal with the current environment
- wiki - private / public part:
  - why not keep the private parts in a mailbox? Two options: a) mailbox of the arbitrator/CM b) shared IMAP mailbox
    - I'm ok with a shared imap folder, but I think that is not as flexible as the wiki (although it allows easy access to individual emails)
  - Who knows the current wiki access system? Can a arbitrator allow access by a specific person (for instance Claimant or Respondent) based on for instance their cert?
  - but the arbitrator must handle many wiki pages public/private
  - he arb list overview is one part ... the arb case file is a 2nd public part, 'cause it contains all the relevant header, ruling part, addtl. private part can be added like arbteam meeting transcripts in subdirectory, on the first line you can add acl's for specific users
  - the wiki is not perfect (lacks for things like tracking of cases) but it's currently all we have
  - So in order to share info, we need a private part
  - wiki has no cert auth currently implemented, but its not the big change to add cert auth in the wiki, volunteers for this project?
    - Martin will step in
    - how long it tooks to move the wiki to client cert access ?
    - max 1 month, probably faster
  - another problem: not all C's and R's have a wiki account ... especialy "delete my account" users
    - they can ask CM or A to send info
    - they do't need access, They will get mail, and the A and CM handle the results, and add them to the wiki. The final decision is published, and R can verify that decision. (only Arb and casemanager need access)
    - should we really invest extra time into users that request "delete my account"?
  - is it needed if we decide that the private part is for CM and A, and that they will communicate if neccessary? In that case we only need a private part, right?
    - a public part is also needed: at least header info and ruling
      - we already have a public part
    - We have 2 options. which are we implementing?
      1. all A and CM may access all private data
      2. Only the involved A and the involved CM may access the private data
    - option 1 is easier
    - so far I have not seen a reason why CM's and A's are not allowed to see everything (as long as we limit it to only active CM's and A's)
      - but the problem is, access to data for other arb/cm not involved in a case is prevented by policys
        except when we say that we all want to learn
    - so why keep the overview on a private wiki instead of in a mail sent to yourself?
      - one some arb cases I'm searching for other arb cases ... the discovery of i.e. delete my account process ... to use them as precedent
      - because other CM's and A's can see and eventually take over. Also to share and discuss issues
      - on slow arb working, or arb not responding ... DRO can check the current state easily and in a future case, where a case needs reopened, the new arb can access a wiki page easily, but requesting the mails from involved CM/A may a long trop
  - the sample of the closed and anonymized case file
  - so you choose the other option, you want to make all private data of a case available to all active arb/cm's? just a few lines ago you said that would be against policies
    - we have a few requirements here:
      1. info must be shared between CM's and A's (learning, take over, progress, reference)
      2. info contains private data, so must be protected (not accessible by others)
      3. ruling must be public (so people can see that Arbitration works correctly)
    - so the questions:
      1. do we agree with these requirements?
      2. what options do we have to address the requirements?
        the option we're currently using: anonymize names by shortening: Lambert H ... email <anonymized> (thats the result from one of the earliest arb team meetings we had this year)
        yes, because the wiki is not private. But this is not my preference. I think having a private wiki, just accessible by active CM's and A's, and a public wiki for rulings, solves all our problems. I think this is easy to implement
    - and as long as we keep the inactive arbitrators problem under control, so that we can request all case info ... as soon as an A or CM stops working, how can you access that data?
      - we would need someone to keep track of all old cases and assign these to an active A/CM, so not an option (we need less managerial work, not more)
      - both A and CM have a complete record of the case, so as long as not both get unresponsive, we're safe
      - and if that fails, we can access their mailbox in case of urgency through the infrastructure team
        some discussion about arbitrated mailbox recovery
  - Summary: So can we please show hands for question a) are these the requirements?
    - 4 aye, one generally ok, one naye. Seems the majority agrees
  - Then let's look at the proposed options
    1. private wiki
    2. keep all mail in your own mailbox
    3. shared mailbox
    4. PD's tool
    5. cert access
    - Summary so far:
      - 1
      - 1
      - 2
      - 5,1,4
      - 4,5,1
      - 2,1,5
      - makes it: 5 for 1, 2 for 2, 0 for 3, 2 for 4, 3 for 5 - ordered: 1, 5, 2, 4, 3
- 21:20 - 20 mins overtime, moving to other tops
- Summary: split arb filing into a public / private part ...
  - private part to be accessible to CM/A's only
  - implementation details not yet focused
Top 2.2 Arbitration - review list of active Arbitrators
- and next board meeting topic "review list of active Arbitrators" has been added ... so probably DRO needs some input from the team
- two arbitrators sent some infos to DRO, but maybe that others can also send their summary about the current situation about active/inactive arbitrators to DRO
- I suggest we put 2.2 on a/the next agenda
  - thats probably to late ... 'cause board meeting is before next arbteam meeting
  - when is next arb meeting?
  - Tuesday, September 7th, 21 CEST, 19 UTC
  - there are two board meetings before...
  - Summary: informational only
Top 2.3 Review AGM 2010 Arbitration Team Report
- have a look on Arbteam Meeting 2010-08-18 that lists the links
- AGM report: I've written a report for Arbitration team this week ... that needs to be reviewed
- Summary: informational only
Top 4.1 when is next arb meeting?
- Tuesday, September 7th, 21 CEST, 19 UTC
21:33 meeting closed

Meeting Transcript

Meeting Transcript 2010-08-18 (Transcripts-Page-Template)

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