1     KiwiIRC 
   2 
   3         CAcert10
   4         #board-meeting
   5         bdmc
   6         egal
   7         FD
   8 
   9 22:19:09
  10 bdmc
  11 I don't understand.  What do last week's minutes have to do with Board Private message 6?  FD's link? 
  12 22:20:30
  13 Etienne
  14 Sorry, Brian, I tougth, you are talking about the message, that we will openn the focus to non ABCed people (that is what is written in the minutes). 
  15 22:21:49
  16 bdmc
  17 No, I was talking about this person who, apparently, had his CV posted in Board Private. 
  18 22:23:48
  19 Etienne
  20 That was my error, to interprating you short message in another way as you meant it. 
  21 22:24:12
  22 bdmc
  23 Not a problem. 
  24 22:26:48
  25 bdmc
  26 OK.  I have now read the message in the archive, and do recognise it.  He looks like a very good candidate. 
  27 Etienne
  28 
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  45 
  46     KiwiIRC 
  47 
  48         CAcert10
  49         #board-meeting
  50         bdmc
  51         egal
  52         FD
  53 
  54 21:57:29
  55 [NickServ]
  56 Welcome to CAcert, Etienne! Here on CAcert, we provide services to enable the registration of nicknames and channels! For details, type /msg NickServ help and /msg ChanServ help. 
  57 21:57:29
  58 → Etienne has joined 
  59 21:57:51
  60 FD
  61 Bonsoir Etienne, 
  62 21:58:04
  63 Etienne
  64 Bonsoir Frédéric 
  65 21:59:56
  66 → dops has joined 
  67 22:00:21
  68 → bdmc has joined 
  69 22:00:59
  70 bdmc
  71 I see that we probably have enough for a quorum, but do we want to wait a few minutes to see if anyone else joins? 
  72 22:01:08
  73 → Treasurer has joined 
  74 22:02:09
  75 Etienne
  76 Bonsoir Frédéric 2 
  77 22:02:14
  78 Hello Brian 
  79 22:02:33
  80 FD
  81 Bonsoir Frédéric 
  82 22:02:39
  83 Good afternoon Brian. Starting on time would give us a chance to go to the end of the agenda today. 
  84 22:03:32
  85 bdmc
  86 In that case, we will start only three minutes late. 
  87 22:03:41
  88 I hereby call this meeting to order. 
  89 22:03:41
  90 FD
  91 https://wiki.cacert.org/Brain/CAcertInc/Committee/MeetingAgendasAndMinutes/2019-09-05 
  92 22:03:51
  93 bdmc
  94 Thank you, Frederic ( FD ) 
  95 22:04:12
  96 Treasurer
  97 Bonsoir Frédéric 
  98 22:04:36
  99 bdmc
 100 Etienne: We have got into the habit of assuming that you will be doing the minutes.  If you ever need someone else to do so, please speak up. 
 101 22:04:58
 102 Etienne
 103 I have a paper and a peen near the keyboard ;-) 
 104 22:05:01
 105 bdmc
 106 We now have 1 hour and 55 minutes until midnight. 
 107 22:06:17
 108 FD
 109 I motion to accept the minutes from 29 August 
 110 22:06:25
 111 https://wiki.cacert.org/Brain/CAcertInc/Committee/MeetingAgendasAndMinutes/2019-08-29#Minutes 
 112 22:06:33
 113 Etienne
 114 second and aye 
 115 22:06:33
 116 bdmc
 117 I will second that. 
 118 22:06:38
 119 FD
 120 yes 
 121 22:06:38
 122 Treasurer
 123 aye 
 124 22:06:38
 125 bdmc
 126 Aye 
 127 22:07:01
 128 Passed. 
 129 22:07:19
 130 Anything in the mailing lists to look at? 
 131 22:07:57
 132 FD
 133 Nothing more than what has been put already into the today's agenda. 
 134 22:08:03
 135 bdmc
 136 Thank you. 
 137 22:08:54
 138 The Secretary has asked that we not follow the order of the Agenda, but instead start with item 2.5.1 -- Personnel 
 139 22:10:17
 140 Etienne
 141 As you could read in the message from WvdR, critical team neads the names (or at least first names) of the successors within 3 weeks. 
 142 22:10:47
 143 Today, FD, sent the CV of candidate #1. 
 144 22:10:47
 145 bdmc
 146 Do we have anybody to put on that list, yet? 
 147 22:11:00
 148 Good 
 149 22:11:35
 150 FD
 151 https://lists.cacert.org/wws/arc/cacert-board-private/2019-09/msg00006.html 
 152 22:11:38
 153 bdmc
 154 Since we are most concerned with capability and conflicts of interest, I gather that they pass both criteria? 
 155 22:12:13
 156 FD
 157 Who are "they"? The candidates for the Critical Team? 
 158 22:12:54
 159 bdmc
 160 Etienne said that "we" have one CV, so far.  That they. 
 161 22:13:30
 162 Etienne
 163 We = the readers of board private list 
 164 22:14:01
 165 bdmc
 166 yes 
 167 22:14:35
 168 Etienne
 169 Furthermore, I contacted two people with no answer until now; so I have to ask again. 
 170 22:14:49
 171 Maybe others have also some names in mind? 
 172 22:15:33
 173 bdmc
 174 ( I don't seem to have received that message. ) 
 175 22:16:29
 176 Etienne
 177 (you did: https://wiki.cacert.org/Brain/CAcertInc/Committee/MeetingAgendasAndMinutes/2019-08-29#Minutes) 
 178 22:18:10
 179 Etienne
 180 FD, how to continue with B.F.? 
 181 22:18:51
 182 FD
 183 Well, I would suggest a welcome video call together with you, Brian and Wytze. 
 184 22:19:54
 185 bdmc
 186 I would be happy to do so. 
 187 22:25:05
 188 Etienne
 189 Any strategy for ##2&3? 
 190 22:25:56
 191 FD
 192 Pardon me, I don't understand what you are talking about? 
 193 22:26:51
 194 Etienne
 195 As critical team needs more than one person, we need at least one, better two other people. 
 196 22:27:09
 197 Treasurer
 198 Thank you 
 199 22:27:19
 200 for decoding 
 201 22:27:54
 202 bdmc
 203 Probably more than one "local," too.  We know that a lot of the work can be done remotely, but also need to have people who can visit the data centre if needed. 
 204 22:28:17
 205 I know, 360km is not exactly local. 
 206 22:30:02
 207 FD
 208 I may propose Johan Bloemberg, from Arnhem, Netherlands. He is a new contact of mine on LinkedIn. 
 209 22:30:26
 210 He wrote to me: "thanks for the invitation. I guess this is a volunteering job? At the moment I'm too busy in my spare time to dedicate much time to side projects, I just moved and already have some project I'm working on. 
 211 22:30:26
 212 But if you ever need local hands-on for a short project feel free to contact me, I can probably spare a day or 2 in the weekends occasionally." 
 213 22:30:34
 214 bdmc
 215 That sounds like he would be closer than the other candidate. 
 216 22:31:50
 217 bdmc
 218 I wonder whether ( I know, I am going outside the bounds ) he could be a fourth candidate, reserved for work on site, although being informed about everything that was happening, as well. 
 219 22:33:13
 220 bdmc
 221 Google tells me that the distance is about 25km. 
 222 22:33:59
 223 Then candidates 2 and 3 could be people anywhere in Britain and Europe. 
 224 22:34:59
 225 FD
 226 The difference with Brent is that Johan (1) is a devops engineer, not a sysadmin, (2) had nothing to do with CAcert (yet). He may be welcomed, but will have to discover how our Certifcate Authority works. 
 227 22:35:15
 228 bdmc
 229 Alternately, we could look anywhere in the world for other candidates, so that we have 24 hour coverage. 
 230 22:35:59
 231 Etienne
 232 In my understanding, there is no limit of members for the critical team. 
 233 22:36:19
 234 bdmc
 235 FD: True, but in his work he has probably had more to do with "running" machines than, for instance, a technical writer. 
 236 22:36:51
 237 Etienne: True, but I thought that we were concentrating on people who were "near" Ede. 
 238 22:37:27
 239 If we had one or two people who were local, then other candidates could be from anywhere. 
 240 22:37:49
 241 FD
 242 Johan is a Red Hat Certified Engineer, according to his profile on LinkedIn. 
 243 22:37:51
 244 https://www.linkedin.com/in/johanbloemberg/ 
 245 22:38:25
 246 He owns a LPIC-2 
 247 22:38:30
 248 bdmc
 249 Which means that he could probably pick up the Debian environment reasonably easily. 
 250 22:39:14
 251 FD
 252 He completed his studies at the Technisch College Ede. 
 253 22:40:01
 254 Etienne
 255 bdmc: one or two should be near Ede for access (seldom). The others can work by remote access (often). 
 256 22:40:11
 257 bdmc
 258 His "About" box exactly answers our needs. 
 259 22:40:21
 260 Etienne: Agreed. 
 261 22:40:34
 262 Treasurer
 263 Excellent point. He may also have connections around, from his own academic period or from the alumni 
 264 22:41:33
 265 bdmc
 266 Treasurer: Good point.  Somewhere in his 500+ connections. 
 267 22:41:45
 268 FD
 269 Addressing Etienne's point, basically our strategy might be to look on LinkedIn for people of such a profile, in order to find #3 and #4, and so on. 
 270 22:42:50
 271 bdmc
 272 I would probably been good to check those people against our existing Community membership, as well.  If they are already members and users, that would be ideal. 
 273 22:43:00
 274 Etienne
 275 Well, I looked around me and in my <500 connections first. 
 276 22:43:15
 277 bdmc
 278 ( Darn!!! === It would probably be good ... ) 
 279 22:43:41
 280 ( Darn fingers.  Don't seem to write what I am thinking! ) 
 281 22:44:17
 282 Etienne
 283 bdmc: good point, but difficult to execute. For Inc members, you may ask the secretary. For the 370 000 CAcert.org members, I do not know who has access to see what is in the data bank. (Wytze can use it to mail them.) 
 284 22:45:52
 285 FD
 286 We may parse the CAcert group on LinkedIn et contact group members with a sysadmin competence. 
 287 22:45:57
 288 bdmc
 289 I was thinking of "Find An Assurer." 
 290 22:46:26
 291 Etienne
 292 Yes, this can work for about 4000 of them, yes. 
 293 22:46:42
 294 bdmc
 295 That, of course, would reduce the 370,000 but would show people who were, at some time, active. 
 296 22:47:13
 297 FD
 298 https://www.linkedin.com/groups/89248/ I see there 576 members. 
 299 22:48:24
 300 Etienne
 301 370 000 = registered members; assurers: 6700; assurer candidates = members >100 points = 10 000 
 302 22:50:26
 303 bdmc
 304 That looks like a good pool.  If even some of them have the correct qualifications, and are interested in helping with either Critical Team or Support, that would be a BIG step forward. 
 305 22:50:28
 306 Etienne
 307 FD: 3 groups at Linkedin, 1 group at Xing, 1 group at Facebook. We can discuss, who will post our letter there: FD, Etienne, PR (will be back in 3 days). 
 308 22:51:11
 309 bdmc
 310 I am a member of LinkedIn, not the others.  I am very happy to put my name on anything going out. 
 311 22:52:05
 312 Etienne
 313 When you hire people, there's always two choices: Either someone who has worked his way up from the bottom and already knows everything. Or someone from outside, who brings in new knowledge, but first has to get to know some internals and the company culture. 
 314 22:52:58
 315 Should we / How check the candidates before accept them and register at arb for ABC? Probabely ABC will not be finished until handover. 
 316 22:53:07
 317 bdmc
 318 Precisely.  And both can add to the organisation. 
 319 22:53:57
 320 Etienne: But, as I understand, Wytze wants to know that there are people in the pipeline, not necessarily that they are in place, correct? 
 321 22:54:12
 322 Etienne
 323 At least, they should subscribe at CAcert.org (to have a certificate and be bound to the CCA). 
 324 22:55:11
 325 bdmc: I told him, that we are negocating with people, internal and external. Crit will have names until the end of the month and the hand over in october. 
 326 22:55:24
 327 → Peter has joined 
 328 22:55:31
 329 bdmc
 330 Having a certificate of their own, and having installed the root certificate for themselves, seems like a requirement. 
 331 22:56:03
 332 Welcome Peter M. We are discussing Item 2.5. 
 333 22:56:30
 334 Etienne
 335 Hello Peter, welcome, we are at 2.5.1 critical team (all the rest skipped for the moment) 
 336 23:00:33
 337 bdmc
 338 OK.  We are one hour in, one hour until midnight.   Have we done enough for this topic for now, or do we have more to do? 
 339 23:01:02
 340 Treasurer
 341 good from me 
 342 23:01:02
 343 Etienne
 344 Who agrees to continue this discussion on a mailing list (as maybe some good ideas will come to our minds only tomorrow or so)? 
 345 23:01:54
 346 FD
 347 Do we have to invite Brent and Johan to a talk? 
 348 23:04:04
 349 bdmc
 350 That might be worthwhile.  Probably evening, though, since everybody else has to work. 
 351 23:04:33
 352 Etienne
 353 FD, probabely with have to discuss some details before (on the list) this week end. Talkd after wards is a good idea. 
 354 23:04:46
 355 With -> we have 
 356 23:06:00
 357 FD
 358 It is fine for me. 
 359 23:07:02
 360 bdmc
 361 OK, do we want to talk about 2.5.2, or move on to Finances? 
 362 23:07:24
 363 Etienne
 364 2.5.2 in short: 
 365 23:07:32
 366 bdmc
 367 Since we have Peter, I would vote for 2.6. 
 368 23:08:10
 369 Treasurer
 370 agreed 2.6 
 371 23:08:12
 372 Etienne
 373 Andreas Bäß is reactivated, Thomas Bremer and Nick Bebout: waiting for answer. 
 374 23:08:23
 375 bdmc
 376 Good news. 
 377 23:09:21
 378 Thank you, Etienne.  Moving on to 2.6 -- Finances.   Item 2.6.1 -- Westpac. 
 379 23:09:26
 380 FD
 381 Alexander Prinsier explicitely declined. 
 382 23:10:05
 383 bdmc
 384 Sorry.  Thought that we were done.  So he was an Arbitrator ( or candidate ) ?  I thought that he was for Critical Team. 
 385 23:10:48
 386 Etienne
 387 (Prinsier was/is also inactive arbitrator, but said, no more active at CAcert, because of the missiing browser integration) 
 388 23:11:03
 389 FD
 390 https://lists.cacert.org/wws/arc/cacert-board-private/2019-08/msg00025.html 
 391 23:11:05
 392 bdmc
 393 Yes, I saw that message. 
 394 23:11:39
 395 FD
 396 https://lists.cacert.org/wws/arc/cacert-board-private/2019-08/msg00025/Screen_Shot_2019-08-20_at_10.... 
 397 23:13:15
 398 bdmc
 399 Time to move on? 
 400 23:13:35
 401 Etienne
 402 Yes. Question: has egal access to Westpac too, now? 
 403 23:13:42
 404 FD
 405 As we are on Arbs, may you answer my question in 3.1? 
 406 23:14:51
 407 FD
 408 Why did you write Etienne about Karl-Heinz: "stalled because of Eva's case" 
 409 23:16:47
 410 Etienne
 411 Someone had the idea to store the three allowed emergency ABCs for super important cases. Andreas B now wants to present a revised ABC and check the people on the waiting list. 
 412 23:17:37
 413 For Karl-Heinz, contact the case manager (maybe Ted?) 
 414 23:17:58
 415 FD
 416 What do you mean with a revised ABC? 
 417 23:19:03
 418 Etienne
 419 Read the ruling at: https://wiki.cacert.org/Arbitrations/a20140124.1?highlight=%28ABC%29 If Andreas B takes over the case, he will be "the arbitrator of this case". 
 420 23:19:20
 421 bdmc
 422 FD: As I understand it, Etienne will fill in the details, one of the Arbitrators had an objection to the old ABC procedure, and said that they could not proceed without revising that process. 
 423 23:20:16
 424 Etienne
 425 He said, ABC will be fozen until he ("the arbitrator of this case") has rewritten the ABC. Then he left CAcert. 
 426 23:21:09
 427 Now our hopes rest on Andreas, who wants to take over the (not yet closed) case. 
 428 23:21:57
 429 FD
 430 What does mean "rewrite the ABC"? Is there a lot of consultations and documentation at doing it? Does Andreas need help on that? 
 431 23:23:59
 432 Etienne
 433 I don't know. However, I believe that as few people as possible should have an insight into the ABC Guide. And because of the separation of powers: he is judicial, we are executive, policy group is legislative. 
 434 23:26:01
 435 FD
 436 In regards to ABC for Karl-Heinz (Bernhard is the case manager, as you said), what are the next steps to be completed to make the ABC passed? 
 437 23:27:43
 438 Etienne
 439 The case manager ask the arbitrator to do the ruling. 
 440 23:27:43
 441 FD
 442 https://wiki.cacert.org/Arbitrations/a20160816.1 
 443 23:28:30
 444 Etienne
 445 (30 min left for finances) 
 446 23:29:09
 447 FD
 448 The arbitrator is Lambert. What is blocking here? Should we contact him, or is it a matter between Bernhard and Lambert only? 
 449 23:29:55
 450 Just trying to fix as much problems as possible, if any can be solved. 
 451 23:31:13
 452 Etienne
 453 In principle, anyone can ask him. But since we are on the board, he can take that as interference. Some arbitrators are very sensitive. I don't know Lambert. 
 454 23:33:35
 455 FD
 456 Thank you for the explanation. 
 457 23:34:38
 458 Etienne
 459 (25 min) 
 460 23:34:55
 461 bdmc
 462 All right to move on? 
 463 23:35:01
 464 Treasurer
 465 yes 
 466 23:36:48
 467 Treasurer
 468 and? 
 469 23:37:22
 470 bdmc
 471 Item 2.6.1 -- Westpac.  I see your name on this, Peter.  Anything you want to report? 
 472 23:37:50
 473 Etienne
 474 Peter and egal, can you join (virtually) to organise egal's access to the bank account? 
 475 23:38:02
 476 FD
 477 The point is linked to question 3.2 
 478 23:38:02
 479 Peter
 480 Nothing to report. The balances are the same. 
 481 23:38:38
 482 Treasurer
 483 What does egal mean? 
 484 23:38:55
 485 bdmc
 486 That's Dirk's name here. 
 487 23:39:16
 488 FD
 489 Egal is the ciphered code name for Dirk. Just to make thing easy to understand. 
 490 23:39:35
 491 bdmc
 492 B-) 
 493 23:39:35
 494 Peter
 495 I am happy to pass access to someone else and end my term on the board. I have already started a project that makes board meetings difficult. 
 496 23:39:51
 497 bdmc
 498 Thank you, Peter.  We understand. 
 499 23:40:20
 500 I presume that that would need to be someone in Australia, or would it require someone more local than that? 
 501 23:40:34
 502 Peter
 503 Westpac is national 
 504 23:40:36
 505 ← FD has quit (Connection closed) 
 506 23:40:43
 507 bdmc
 508 That's what I thought. 
 509 23:40:47
 510 → FD has joined 
 511 23:41:00
 512 FD
 513 Peter: who is the one having access to the Westpac account after you will pass access? 
 514 23:41:37
 515 Peter
 516 The access was passed to me easily as I had online access. 
 517 23:41:46
 518 bdmc
 519 That is what we need to determine.   I suspect that we need to recruit an Australian member to be the "owner of record." 
 520 23:41:47
 521 Treasurer
 522 As a Treasurer, how comes I don't have control of this bank account? Log in? Download datas? 
 523 23:42:11
 524 Peter
 525 You will also need an Australian as public officer 
 526 23:42:24
 527 bdmc
 528 Treasurer: I think that it would require personal access to a Westpac branch. 
 529 23:42:38
 530 FD
 531 There is the mail of Kevin, who stated that we tried to pass access to Dirk in the past 
 532 23:42:43
 533 https://lists.cacert.org/wws/arc/cacert-board-private/2019-07/msg00003.html 
 534 23:42:45
 535 Etienne
 536 The public officer has to be a NSW resident, but not a board member. 
 537 23:43:09
 538 FD
 539 The question of the public officer is another one. 
 540 23:43:10
 541 Peter
 542 If you have a Westpac account of any type, you get online access and I can transfer control. 
 543 23:43:20
 544 Etienne
 545 Until 1 min, I understood, that Peter will leave board, but remain de juro Public officer. 
 546 23:43:31
 547 FD
 548 Me too. 
 549 23:43:56
 550 Peter
 551 If you do not have an account, you would have to as Westpac for online access to their system. 
 552 23:44:12
 553 bdmc
 554 ( as = ask? ) 
 555 23:44:28
 556 Peter
 557 I can be public officer until the AGM or December. 
 558 23:44:40
 559 bdmc
 560 I suspect that that is a non-starter.  Only customers get access to accounts. 
 561 23:45:10
 562 egal
 563 my i step in and bring some light to westpac? ;-) 
 564 23:45:24
 565 FD
 566 Great! 
 567 23:45:26
 568 bdmc
 569 OK.  Well, that is news.   We did not understand that you were resigning from all activities. 
 570 23:45:30
 571 Etienne
 572 Before, it would be good to help Dirk (egal) to get online access. Dirk told me: "for account access I have to get a TAN on my mobile phone number and enter it once" that's all. 
 573 23:45:57
 574 egal
 575 you have to authenticate at westpac to get a "personal number" to access westpac-accounts. 
 576 23:46:13
 577 there is one westpac-office in europe, located in london 
 578 23:46:36
 579 bdmc
 580 and authentication requires a personal visit, correct? 
 581 23:47:07
 582 egal
 583 to make it easier, one should show up at their office with somebody, who has already access to the westpac-account ... 
 584 23:47:24
 585 in my case it was ian grigg (who is not in london anymore) 
 586 23:47:49
 587 bdmc
 588 I hear that he doesn't get out of Malta very often. 
 589 23:48:07
 590 egal
 591 unfortunately ian does not have the right to add new members to the westpac-account, so this should be done by kevin 
 592 23:48:23
 593 bdmc
 594 egal: Do I understand that you two did visit the Westpac branch together? 
 595 23:48:56
 596 Etienne
 597 Peter, do you have the rights to add new members to the westpac account? 
 598 23:49:29
 599 Peter
 600 I am looking and cannot find that option 
 601 23:49:29
 602 egal
 603 at the personal visit at westpac we both showed our id-documents AND (in my case) one of the latest phone/water/power-bills showing my name and address ... 
 604 23:50:04
 605 (it's different than the procedure you do for german (maybe europan) banks) 
 606 23:50:32
 607 bdmc
 608 Peter: It sounds as if, if you can, you and Kevin should talk and see about transferring that power to you. ( I know, it will only be temporary. ) 
 609 23:50:37
 610 Peter
 611 Add user: https://www.westpac.com.au/business-banking/online-banking/support-faqs/add-a-new-user/ 
 612 23:50:49
 613 I do not have the Administration section 
 614 23:51:16
 615 bdmc
 616 I wonder whether Kevin can give you that power, or if you need a branch to do so. 
 617 23:52:18
 618 egal
 619 as far as i remember the westpac official told us that kevin is able to do so in his administative interface 
 620 23:52:28
 621 bdmc
 622 ( We are learning new things all the time. ) 
 623 23:52:46
 624 Treasurer
 625 Do we need this bank account? 
 626 23:52:49
 627 bdmc
 628 egal: So he can assign other Administrators. 
 629 23:52:59
 630 FD
 631 Dirk: does it mean that you have online access to our WestPac accounts and can order the transfers which we need to do to Secure-U through TransferWise for instance? 
 632 23:53:33
 633 See: https://lists.cacert.org/wws/arc/cacert-board/2019-07/msg00006.html 
 634 23:53:35
 635 egal
 636 currently i only have the authentication/id/... number from westpac ... nothing else 
 637 23:54:01
 638 FD
 639 In July, Kevin wrote: "The move to give Dirk access to the accounts stalled 2 years ago - partly because we couldn't make it work; partly, I imagine, because of the use of Paypal. I have mentioned to the Board a couple of times that it is possible to give him this access if still desired, now that I have found a critical piece of information about the process; I don't recall having received any replies (otherwise it would have been finalised). Giving 
 640 23:54:02
 641  Peter access to the accounts showed that it is now possible." 
 642 23:54:08
 643 Peter
 644 Can you log in to the online system? 
 645 23:54:20
 646 bdmc
 647 egal: Which means that you should be able to log into their online system and access accounts, correct? 
 648 23:54:36
 649 FD
 650 So, what is blocking you further? 
 651 23:55:20
 652 bdmc
 653 Peter, what is the address ( URL ) for Westpac's online system? 
 654 23:55:28
 655 Etienne
 656 I can serve with a bank account from March 2020. If Peter can wait that long. Or if we transfer all our money to secure-U before then, we don't need Westpac anymore. 
 657 23:55:49
 658 FD
 659 And your login / password too, please. 
 660 23:55:55
 661 Just kidding. 
 662 23:56:15
 663 Peter
 664 https://banking.westpac.com.au 
 665 23:56:20
 666 bdmc
 667 Etienne: Except for all of the places where we have advertised that account. 
 668 23:56:25
 669 Peter
 670 Login is at the top right. 
 671 23:56:35
 672 FD
 673 Brian: you are righté 
 674 23:57:26
 675 Treasurer
 676 But since we don't know 
 677 23:57:43
 678 bdmc
 679 egal: We know that you won't have "ultimate" access, but can you log in to that system? 
 680 23:57:50
 681 Treasurer
 682 how much transaction it receives, I guess that is not so much 
 683 23:59:10
 684 Etienne
 685 bdmc: That's right. But if we have an IBAN number, Westpac will only be relevant for donations from Australia. It is enough to check once a year what is there. There is the question whether Peter (on paper) remains a public officer and looks into the account once a year in this function. Otherwise no task. 
 686 23:59:30
 687 FD
 688 Linux Australia will prefer to transfer the grant to WestPac than to Deutche Bank :-) 
 689 00:00:57
 690 FD
 691 egal: Dirk, are you able to log into WestPac online system and access our accounts? 
 692 00:01:10
 693 egal
 694 nope 
 695 00:01:52
 696 @peter let's switch to private for westpac details ... 
 697 00:02:19
 698 bdmc
 699 Hmmm.  Obviously you would have tried the "forgot password" process if that was the problem.  I wonder what is blocking you.  As you say, we will need to work on that. 
 700 00:02:56
 701 If Peter doesn't have access to the Administrative menu section, he probably can't help much more until he gets that access. 
 702 00:03:16
 703 FD
 704 Kevin can help. 
 705 00:03:18
 706 Kevin wrote in July, about giving access to Dirk: "I have mentioned to the Board a couple of times that it is possible to give him this access if still desired, now that I have found a critical piece of information about the process". 
 707 00:03:36
 708 bdmc
 709 OK.  I see that it is midnight. 
 710 00:04:38
 711 bdmc
 712 FD: I would suggest that Kevin give Peter Administrative access, as we have been discussing.  Do we want to see if Dirk can get it, too, or just "regular" access? 
 713 00:05:12
 714 FD
 715 I would be very good to give full administrative access to Drik. 
 716 00:05:27
 717 Etienne
 718 I think both is good. So we have in AUS and EUR someone with full access. 
 719 00:06:15
 720 bdmc
 721 I agree.  I move that we contact Kevin and ask him to give Peter M. and Dirk Administrator access to the CAcert Westpac account. 
 722 00:06:22
 723 Etienne
 724 second and aye 
 725 00:06:33
 726 Treasurer
 727 And how do I have access? 
 728 00:06:55
 729 bdmc
 730 Treasurer: Are you not resigning in a month? 
 731 00:07:16
 732 ← FD has left (Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 
 733 00:07:20
 734 bdmc
 735 I would be very happy if you weren't. 
 736 00:07:22
 737 → FD has joined 
 738 00:07:25
 739 Treasurer
 740 I am resigning as soon as you find a successor 
 741 00:07:37
 742 egal
 743 @treasurer if the procedure did not change at westpac it may be that we have to meet in london at westpac ... 
 744 00:07:38
 745 Treasurer
 746 In the meantime, I worry 
 747 00:08:21
 748 bdmc
 749 In today's banking world, I would expect it to be more difficult, not less, so I agree with Dirk. 
 750 00:09:32
 751 Treasurer
 752 I don't need to be the owner, I need to see who send what to this account 
 753 00:10:20
 754 egal
 755 some information from the past: as it's quite complicated and somehow expensive to get access to westpac there was the decision to set up a financial team (which should be stable over the years), which works close to the treasurer ... so there is no need to do the westpac authentication again and again after every treasurer change 
 756 00:11:15
 757 bdmc
 758 Yes, we had that very briefly, but it didn't last as long as the Treasurer, as I remember. 
 759 00:11:38
 760 Treasurer
 761 Anyway, you're right. Let's do the easiest way, as the best is enemy of the good enough 
 762 00:11:49
 763 Etienne
 764 treasurer: if you get a cacert.org address, the financial team can send you bank documents over our internal servers = very sure. 
 765 00:11:51
 766 Treasurer
 767 therefore, aye 
 768 00:12:34
 769 Etienne
 770 other ayes, nays? 
 771 00:12:37
 772 FD
 773 I vote yes to the motion, too. 
 774 00:12:37
 775 bdmc
 776 Yes, we have an outstanding motion.  Aye, if necessary. 
 777 00:13:36
 778 OK.  Is there anything else that we want to discuss this morning?  Any other Agenda items? 
 779 00:14:09
 780 Etienne
 781 Please read the news about twitter and grants in the agenda on your own. 
 782 00:14:12
 783 Treasurer
 784 €798.35 EUR in Paypal, for the record and your information 
 785 00:14:18
 786 Peter
 787 Where do I load up the satements? Can I use email? 
 788 00:14:20
 789 FD
 790 The motion we just voted on was proposed by Brian at [00:06:15]. Just to make it easier to find it back for the minutes maker. 
 791 00:15:05
 792 Peter
 793 aye 
 794 00:15:51
 795 bdmc
 796 Peter: As mentioned by Etienne a couple of minutes ago, do you have a cacert.org account, or perhaps a Protonmail account? 
 797 00:16:29
 798 FD
 799 Or perhaps a CAcert cert, which makes possible to send encrypted mail, after all? 
 800 00:16:37
 801 bdmc
 802 True 
 803 00:17:02
 804 Since we "Have the Technology!" 
 805 00:17:07
 806 FD
 807 True 
 808 00:17:35
 809 Etienne
 810 Peter and treasurer: you can get a cacert.org adress here: https://wiki.cacert.org/Technology/TechnicalSupport/EndUserSupport/CommunityE-Mail 
 811 00:18:04
 812 From cacert.org to cacert.org mails remains on our servers. 
 813 00:18:39
 814 Even if its not encrypted, this is a secure way. 
 815 00:19:18
 816 bdmc
 817 Only if you are using Webmail.  If you use that address from your own server, it travels over the Internet.   Using the mailcrypt technology that Etienne found us, in GMail, would be another layer of security. 
 818 00:19:41
 819 Peter
 820 I have a cacert email and it is set to SSL/TLS 
 821 00:20:09
 822 bdmc
 823 That should do the trick. 
 824 00:20:13
 825 FD
 826 I will put that in our next grant application, that nobody needs our certificates for sending secure emails, enough is to get a regular email account from us. :-) 
 827 00:20:17
 828 Treasurer
 829 thank you. I didn't know. This is why I can receive to treasurer@cacert.org because it has an alias to my personal mailbox but I can't send securely or against anti-spam 
 830 00:20:47
 831 bdmc
 832 Peter: Mail to secretary at cacert.org and all will be fine. 
 833 00:21:27
 834 FD
 835 Treasurer: Frederic, are 798.35 EUR the remaining amount on the PayPal account after that you paid the invoice 2018-2 of €1,324.09 for the hosting period June 2018 to November 2018? 
 836 00:21:48
 837 Treasurer
 838 yes 
 839 00:22:18
 840 bdmc
 841 And the next invoice is about the same amount, correct? 
 842 00:22:34
 843 FD
 844 the invoice 2019-1 of €1,349.27 for hosting period November 2018 to May 2019 
 845 00:22:49
 846 Not paid yet, right? 
 847 00:23:04
 848 bdmc
 849 Which means that the Paypal account has about half of what is necessary. 
 850 00:23:27
 851 Treasurer
 852 right, waiting for transfer tricks to pay from Westpac and avoiding hidden transfer / change fees 
 853 00:23:51
 854 Westpac Community Solutions One AU$868.59 
 855 00:23:59
 856 FD
 857 We knew that the invoice 2019-1 would have to be paid from WestPac. See 2.6.4 
 858 00:24:01
 859 Treasurer
 860 Westpac Business Cach Reserve AU$2219.27 
 861 00:24:14
 862 Etienne
 863 360K-Mail will be sent in a few hours by Wytze. So, some money should come in next week. 
 864 00:24:17
 865 Peter
 866 Just sent latest statement to secretary@ 
 867 00:24:25
 868 Etienne
 869 Thankk you, Peter. 
 870 00:24:54
 871 Treasurer
 872 Time to sleep 
 873 00:25:03
 874 bdmc
 875 Exactly. 
 876 00:25:08
 877 Etienne
 878 Please, one minute. 
 879 00:25:09
 880 bdmc
 881 Next meeting, All? 
 882 00:25:16
 883 Etienne
 884 I was just informed by a CAcert.org member "by the way, as a DRO you can inquire what is with a case... but: you are not allowed to interfere in the ruling or the decision making for it." 
 885 00:25:28
 886 So: I motion, that board as DRO ask the arbitrator in charge of the ABC over Karl Heinz G. about the progress of the case and what's missing to close the case. 
 887 00:25:42
 888 bdmc
 889 I will second that. 
 890 00:25:47
 891 Treasurer
 892 aye 
 893 00:25:47
 894 Etienne
 895 (this is Question time 3.1) 
 896 00:25:49
 897 egal
 898 i wouldn't do it ... 
 899 00:26:04
 900 FD
 901 Why ? 
 902 00:26:04
 903 egal
 904 this documents it in the motion system ... 
 905 00:26:12
 906 bdmc
 907 egal: Because of the appearance of interference? 
 908 00:26:24
 909 egal
 910 could be seen as ... yep ... 
 911 00:26:53
 912 FD
 913 OK 
 914 00:26:54
 915 360K-Mail: how are we prepared to handle about ~3000 incoming emails next week? 
 916 00:26:58
 917 egal
 918 which means: contact the arbitrator: yes ... but don't document it in the motion system ... 
 919 00:27:01
 920 Etienne
 921 But we can do it without a motion/motion system? 
 922 00:27:03
 923 bdmc
 924 I can understand that. 
 925 00:27:27
 926 egal
 927 sure ... ;-) 
 928 00:27:39
 929 Etienne
 930 So I change the ayes to OKs and will remove the word "motion" for the minutes. 
 931 00:27:55
 932 egal
 933 but only ONE person should contact lambert ... 
 934 00:28:02
 935 FD
 936 360K-Mail: how are we prepared to handle about ~3000 incoming emails next week? 
 937 00:28:13
 938 bdmc
 939 Thank you.  I was trying to write you something and tripping over my fingers. 
 940 00:28:33
 941 egal
 942 ... during the time i was on board we had the issue, that more board-members contacted the arbitrator in a case ... which caused confusion 
 943 00:28:34
 944 bdmc
 945 Yes, as Secretary, you can contact Lambert and the Case Manager together. 
 946 00:28:57
 947 Etienne
 948 OK, the secretary will do it. 
 949 00:29:01
 950 FD
 951 OK 
 952 00:29:06
 953 bdmc
 954 We don't want to send messages to one and not inform the other. 
 955 00:29:31
 956 OK.  Back to the "Next Meeting" question. 
 957 00:29:34
 958 egal
 959 @fd: mails will be sent out from support@cacert.org ... so support will receive mails ... 
 960 00:29:54
 961 (... triage ... support ... more work for me ... need help there ... ;-) ) 
 962 00:29:59
 963 FD
 964 Support. How many divisions? 
 965 00:30:29
 966 bdmc
 967 FD: "Divisions?" 
 968 00:30:30
 969 Etienne
 970 (but into the mail some contact possibilities are given. The secretary started allready to have some standard answers for standard questions) 
 971 00:31:00
 972 Peter
 973 I have to go. Bye 
 974 00:31:09
 975 Etienne
 976 Thank you Peter 
 977 00:31:10
 978 bdmc
 979 Have a good day, Peter. 
 980 00:31:16
 981 ← Peter has quit (Quit: Leaving) 
 982 00:31:17
 983 egal
 984 i don't know the content of the mail ... but we should be aware, that support will receive a lot of replys ... 
 985 00:31:26
 986 Etienne
 987 egal: ABCed help or ordinary help? 
 988 00:31:28
 989 FD
 990 bdmc: armoured ones. 
 991 00:31:43
 992 Bye Peter. 
 993 00:31:47
 994 bdmc
 995 egal: Including bounces and undeliverable. 
 996 00:31:48
 997 egal
 998 ABCed ... and trained ... of course ... ;-) 
 999 00:32:14
1000 bounces and undeliverable should be caught by triage 
1001 00:33:05
1002 Etienne
1003 (I would be interested - to know the truth - how many of 369 000 are no more working) 
1004 00:33:05
1005 FD
1006 Who is behind "triage"? 
1007 00:33:35
1008 We will know in a few hours. 
1009 00:33:58
1010 egal
1011 @etienne: in theory all should work ... otherwise it's a violation of CCA ... which could be used for account termination ... 
1012 00:34:13
1013 (these are the words from MM ... somehow ...) 
1014 00:34:56
1015 Etienne
1016 I know, but theory is only one side. After all this mails, have you still the manpower for terminations? 
1017 00:34:59
1018 egal
1019 (well ... there can be always times why an email is temporary not in a good-working-order ...) 
1020 00:35:35
1021 Etienne
1022 egal, if you need help from oridnary people, tell it now. 
1023 00:35:59
1024 bdmc
1025 Or even from us!  B-) 
1026 00:36:32
1027 Treasurer
1028 You are extra-ordinary, it doesn't fit 
1029 00:36:42
1030 egal
1031 karl-heinz and ales are doing triage ... but they can't answer support mails or access the account-database ... 
1032 00:37:16
1033 triage is pre-sorting the mails ... the work needs to be done by me ... and sometimes joost ... 
1034 00:37:37
1035 that's why support takes quite loooooong time ... as my time is limited ... 
1036 00:38:29
1037 FD
1038 Karl-Heinz will be able to do support, after having been ABC'ed by Lambert? 
1039 00:38:45
1040 egal: 3.3 Dirk, what's about granting me write access to the blog? 
1041 00:39:38
1042 Etienne
1043 treasurer: In the mail we give other contact data, not support. So people who can read will get an answer from someone else. 
1044 00:39:39
1045 egal
1046 after some training: yes ... (karl-heinz is only some km away from me, so training should be easy) 
1047 00:39:58
1048 for blog you should have write access if using a cacert-certificate ... 
1049 00:40:40
1050 FD
1051 There is no other means? 
1052 00:41:16
1053 bdmc
1054 FD: Are you still fighting the certificate system? 
1055 00:41:55
1056 FD
1057 bdmc: no, thanks to Dirk and Joost, I regained total access to my account a few weeks ago. Thanks. 
1058 00:42:44
1059 Etienne
1060 bdmc asked for the next meeting. 12/19/26? 
1061 00:42:46
1062 Treasurer
1063 I have to go too. Bye 
1064 00:42:48
1065 bdmc
1066 I am concerned about the time.  Are there any more things that we need to discuss tonight? 
1067 00:43:09
1068 egal
1069 @fd: joost and i set next to each other for this issue ... needed some discussion between us .. but now we're clear for these cases ... ;-) 
1070 00:43:26
1071 FD
1072 Thank you ! 
1073 00:43:30
1074 bdmc
1075 Etienne: That seems a bit far in the future. 
1076 00:43:35
1077 egal
1078 access to blog is only possible using a certificate 
1079 00:43:57
1080 FD
1081 egal: OK 
1082 00:44:00
1083 Etienne
1084 next meeting 12th/19th/26th sept. 2019 20:00UTC? 
1085 00:44:09
1086 FD
1087 Etienne: 26th of September 
1088 00:44:21
1089 bdmc
1090 Ahhh! 
1091 00:44:25
1092 FD: Not before? 
1093 00:44:41
1094 Etienne
1095 And all about critical will be handled before in a bilateral way? 
1096 00:44:56
1097 FD
1098 We came across nearly all of our agenda. 
1099 00:45:14
1100 @Etienne: yes 
1101 00:45:29
1102 bdmc
1103 I was going to suggest the 19th, but we can go another week, if we communicate. 
1104 00:45:51
1105 FD
1106 If you prefer the 19th, I do not object. 
1107 00:46:02
1108 Etienne
1109 OK, 19-09-2019 and before mails and telephone conferences. 
1110 00:46:04
1111 Treasurer
1112 neither, do I 
1113 00:46:27
1114 FD
1115 You know Brian, that I want to please you each and every time when I can do so. 
1116 00:46:28
1117 Etienne
1118 If everything gos well, 26 is OK, if not, 19th gives some security time 
1119 00:46:50
1120 egal
1121 btw: there is a westpac office is still in london ... they did not move within the last 4 years ... ;-) ... and ... ID verfication has to be done in a westpac office ... 
1122 00:47:08
1123 FD
1124 OK 
1125 00:47:08
1126 bdmc
1127 OK.  I will see you all, and anybody else who wants to join us, in two weeks. 
1128 00:47:21
1129 FD
1130 Ok for the 19th 
1131 00:47:24
1132 Treasurer
1133 19, then. Bye 
1134 00:47:33
1135 Etienne
1136 Thank you and good bye. 
1137 00:47:40
1138 egal
1139 good night ... ;-) 
1140 00:47:41
1141 bdmc
1142 In that case, I hereby declare this meeting concluded. 
1143 00:47:47
1144 Good night all. 
1145 00:47:51
1146 FD
1147 Good night or good afternoon. 
1148 00:47:52
1149 ← Treasurer has left  
1150 00:48:04
1151 bdmc
1152 FD: Into my evening, already. 
1153 00:48:12
1154 FD
1155 Oh! 
1156 00:48:12
1157 bdmc
1158 18:48 
1159 00:48:29
1160 FD
1161 Good evening, then! 
1162 00:48:31
1163 bdmc
1164 See you soon.  B-) 
1165 00:48:32
1166 Etienne
1167 00:48-5:45........................ good night 
1168 14 Users
1169 
1170     ~GuKKDevel_log
1171     @ChanServ
1172     bdmc
1173     decay
1174     dirk_on_server
1175     dops
1176     egal
1177     Etienne
1178     FD
1179     nb
1180     nemunaire
1181     Skeeper
1182     ynazarov
1183     zerkalo
1184 
1185 Etienne