1 19:01:39
   2 [NickServ]
   3 Welcome to CAcert, Etienne! Here on CAcert, we provide services to enable the registration of nicknames and channels! For details, type /msg NickServ help and /msg ChanServ help. 
   4 19:01:39
   5 → Etienne est entré 
   6 19:01:44
   7 → bdmc est entré 
   8 19:02:13
   9 bdmc
  10 I could have sworn that my calendar said an hour from now. 
  11 19:02:18
  12 Sorry to be late. 
  13 19:03:00
  14 I see three Board Members, and one other. 
  15 19:03:51
  16 mcr: I presume that you are still in European time? 
  17 19:04:51
  18 KimNilsson
  19 bdmc Etienne mcr KimNilsson <= four board members 
  20 19:05:23
  21 bdmc
  22 I can't count.  You know that!  B-) 
  23 19:05:33
  24 Etienne
  25 Hello, 19:00 european not daylight saving time 
  26 19:05:47
  27 bdmc
  28 Yes, we talked about that yesterday. 
  29 19:06:28
  30 Do we want to start immediately, or see if any others join us? 
  31 19:06:53
  32 I had hoped that Frederic, at least, would join us. 
  33 19:07:28
  34 Etienne
  35 I hoped too. 
  36 19:07:30
  37 bdmc
  38 North American time changes Sunday coming. 
  39 19:08:04
  40 There has been talk about time never changing, but it is still being discussed. 
  41 19:08:39
  42 Etienne
  43 :-( 
  44 19:09:10
  45 bdmc
  46 Would it be acceptable if we waiting until XX:15, or do you want XX:10? 
  47 19:09:20
  48 ( waiting >>>> waited ) 
  49 19:12:15
  50 KimNilsson
  51 XX.10 came and went 
  52 19:12:27
  53 bdmc
  54 It did. 
  55 19:12:33
  56 I didn't see an answer. 
  57 19:12:36
  58 KimNilsson
  59 Meeting minutes will be here, https://nextcloud.cacert.org/apps/files/?dir=/CAcert%20board/CAcert%20-%20Committee%20meetings&openf... 
  60 19:13:48
  61 bdmc
  62 Does everybody have their Agenda? 
  63 19:13:57
  64 KimNilsson
  65 Anyone who has access is free to help out, to make them reflect the events of the meeting. 
  66 19:14:23
  67 I can see the agenda. 
  68 19:14:43
  69 Etienne
  70 https://wiki.cacert.org/Brain/CAcertInc/Committee/MeetingAgendasAndMinutes/2022-11-03 
  71 19:15:09
  72 bdmc
  73 Well, the time has come, as the Walrus said. 
  74 19:15:24
  75 I hereby call this meeting of the CAcert Board, to order. 
  76 19:15:54
  77 I had something that I wanted to bring up, but it is something that Frederic has been driving, so I will postpone that. 
  78 19:16:17
  79 Kim has already talked about Minutes, so that item is past. 
  80 19:16:38
  81 Is there anyting in the mailing lists that should be brought before the Board? 
  82 19:16:41
  83 Etienne
  84 (If I do not answer quickly, it is, beause I am helping my son to make his turnpipe lantern https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%A4benlicht ) 
  85 19:17:04
  86 There was a discussion about an e-mail from Jan month ago. 
  87 19:17:43
  88 bdmc
  89 That looks like a good project. 
  90 19:18:08
  91 Etienne
  92 (The Swiss version of Halloween) 
  93 19:18:09
  94 bdmc
  95 I saw that some people helped contribute to that thread. 
  96 19:18:29
  97 Is there something more that we can, or should, do? 
  98 19:19:21
  99 Etienne
 100 perhaps ask dirk for his assessment of the situation. 
 101 19:19:47
 102 KimNilsson
 103 Dirk said he may be a tad late today, as the meeting is early. 
 104 19:20:04
 105 bdmc
 106 Yes.  I don't remember whether Dirk can contribute on that mailing list. 
 107 19:20:43
 108 We should definitely bring it up next Wednesday. 
 109 19:21:15
 110 If there is nothing else, we can continue on with last month's minutes. 
 111 19:21:23
 112 Etienne
 113 I move to accept the minutes of the committee meeting of 4th of October 2022. 
 114 19:21:36
 115 bdmc
 116 Unfortunately, the meeting was on the 6th. 
 117 19:21:39
 118 KimNilsson
 119 When Michael picked it up last week, Dirk and Jan were not included. They were last year. so Dirk would have to be informed of what the rest of uf have said since then. 
 120 19:22:07
 121 Etienne: There has to be a slight adjustment to last month's minutes. 
 122 19:22:08
 123 bdmc
 124 I will make a point of forwarding those messages to him. 
 125 19:22:36
 126 KimNilsson
 127 I had failed to insert Michael's name in the list of absent board members. 
 128 19:22:59
 129 I have done so a few minutes ago (pun intended). :-) 
 130 19:23:01
 131 Etienne
 132 I move to accept the minutes of the committee meeting of 6th of October 2022. 
 133 19:23:23
 134 bdmc
 135 Seconded 
 136 19:24:12
 137 KimNilsson: I just refreshed my copy, and I don't see that change. 
 138 19:24:29
 139 KimNilsson
 140 That's because I adjusted the minutes, not the wiki. Doing that now. 
 141 19:25:44
 142 bdmc
 143 All in favour of the adjusted minutes? 
 144 19:26:21
 145 Etienne
 146 aye 
 147 19:26:22
 148 KimNilsson
 149 Minutes should now be correct. 
 150 19:26:28
 151 Etienne
 152 (Michael just added as asked) 
 153 19:26:39
 154 KimNilsson
 155 Aye 
 156 19:26:54
 157 bdmc
 158 It appears that there are two copies open for editing. 
 159 19:27:23
 160 → FD est entré 
 161 19:27:42
 162 bdmc
 163 Welcome Frederic. 
 164 19:27:43
 165 Etienne
 166 Hello Frédéric, bienvenue! 
 167 19:28:06
 168 bdmc
 169 We are just voting on last month's minutes. 
 170 19:28:10
 171 Etienne
 172 tu peux nous saluer avec un "aye" pour les minutes 
 173 19:28:20
 174 bdmc
 175 Aye 
 176 19:28:35
 177 KimNilsson
 178 aha - did you also edit the minutes, Etienne ? I see there's a conflict now. 
 179 19:28:53
 180 bdmc
 181 Yes, he said that he was. 
 182 19:28:58
 183 ( did ) 
 184 19:29:12
 185 KimNilsson
 186 Ok, best if I don't touch it then. Not enough experience with the wiki to fix that. 
 187 19:29:13
 188 bdmc
 189 You two can fight about it. 
 190 19:29:15
 191 Etienne
 192 Yes I did just ad Michael 
 193 19:29:21
 194 FD
 195 Hello or good evening to everyone. 
 196 19:29:33
 197 bdmc
 198 Going back to the beginning. 
 199 19:29:34
 200 KimNilsson
 201 Hi Frederic. 
 202 19:30:12
 203 bdmc
 204 For some time, Frederic, and perhaps others, have been pushing for a spoken meeting, rather than a written one. 
 205 19:30:43
 206 Etienne:  Is there something in our rules ( or By-Laws ) that discusses the meeting format? 
 207 19:31:56
 208 Etienne
 209 I do not think so. 
 210 19:32:09
 211 bdmc
 212 So just tradition. 
 213 19:32:54
 214 In that case, I will ask for an informal vote regarding whether to change these meetings to be verbal or stay written, as they have been for years. 
 215 19:33:10
 216 KimNilsson
 217 And not all traditions are kept. This says meetings should be on Sundays every second week. https://wiki.cacert.org/Brain/CAcertInc/Committee 
 218 19:33:24
 219 bdmc
 220 Good point. 
 221 19:33:47
 222 How does everybody want to continue in the future? 
 223 19:34:09
 224 I have resisted, but will conform with the group wishes. 
 225 19:35:27
 226 FD
 227 Thank you Brian for the initiative to put the topic on the table. You know my opinion. :-) 
 228 19:37:08
 229 KimNilsson
 230 That same page also says IRC is the place. - But, Etienne thinks there is no such "rule", so if that is so, we can decide otherwise, and then just adjust this *information* page. 
 231 19:37:36
 232 bdmc
 233 That's why I started with that question. 
 234 19:37:58
 235 Etienne
 236 The wiki is not the rules. It is just "common". The rules are the statutes, but I do not know them by heart. 
 237 19:38:58
 238 KimNilsson
 239 yeah, that's what I figured 
 240 19:39:15
 241 bdmc
 242 Any thoughts regarding this issue, Etienne and Kim? 
 243 19:39:28
 244 Etienne
 245 For discussions, I see advantages in talking. Passing on information or voting is certainly quicker via IRC. 
 246 19:39:37
 247 bdmc
 248 I don't think that Michael is present. 
 249 19:40:28
 250 I also don't think that there is any way for us to properly conduct a vote on a motion verbally. 
 251 19:40:50
 252 KimNilsson
 253 Etienne: I agree. bdmc - and I agree with that too. 
 254 19:41:14
 255 bdmc
 256 OK, so perhaps some kind of "hybrid" meeting? 
 257 19:41:52
 258 Etienne
 259 Probably. And after 3-4x we will find a good modus vivendi. I hope. 
 260 19:42:00
 261 bdmc
 262 Using two different channels simultaneously? 
 263 19:42:03
 264 KimNilsson
 265 Opening up topics for verbal discussion, and bringing them to voting, and then opening up the next topic. 
 266 19:42:13
 267 egal
 268 salue 
 269 19:42:23
 270 Etienne
 271 wink wink egal 
 272 19:42:28
 273 KimNilsson
 274 Evening Dirk 
 275 19:42:32
 276 bdmc
 277 OK.  I would suggest that we try this in the first meeting after the AGM. 
 278 19:42:46
 279 Let's continue, now that Dirk has joined us. 
 280 19:42:53
 281 FD
 282 Thank you Brian. 
 283 19:43:25
 284 bdmc
 285 Section 2.  Etienne, how much do you want me to skip? 
 286 19:43:49
 287 Etienne
 288 Probably, we can skip 1 & 2. Introduction for 3 & 4: Since the new board will be more or less the old board, maybe we can have some basic thoughts tonight. 
 289 19:44:31
 290 bdmc
 291 In that case, I think that I want to jump down to Item 2.11 -- the AGM. 
 292 19:45:02
 293 In the item that I added to that, I am asking about Nominations.  Etienne? 
 294 19:46:05
 295 Etienne
 296 Until now, none. I am sending a reminder to the members again today. There I will also briefly present the previous ones. How can you define Kim and Sascha positively in 1 sentence? 
 297 19:46:19
 298 (For the others, I have already a sentence) 
 299 19:46:47
 300 bdmc
 301 Kim has become a strong voice in CAcert, helping and guiding in many ways. 
 302 19:47:18
 303 Etienne
 304 Thank you. 
 305 19:47:27
 306 bdmc
 307 I have not had much contact with Sascha, so need someone else. 
 308 19:49:07
 309 Etienne
 310 Frédéric Dumas, who supports the board as an entrepreneur through his strategic thinking. 
 311 19:49:16
 312 Brian McCullough, who as long-time president prudently holds the various wings together. 
 313 19:49:25
 314 bdmc
 315 B-) 
 316 19:49:29
 317 Etienne
 318 Michael Richardson, who with a lot of patience has brought light back into the darkness of our finances and has started to put the financial management on a stable footing. 
 319 19:49:36
 320 bdmc
 321 Yes 
 322 19:49:50
 323 Etienne, the rock. 
 324 19:51:10
 325 Etienne
 326 If there are no nominations, there can be done on the AGM itself. 
 327 19:51:11
 328 KimNilsson
 329 "managing the chaos of communications across all the interwebs" :-) 
 330 19:51:42
 331 bdmc
 332 As far as reports, now that I have submitted mine, late as always, do you have everything you need? 
 333 19:52:35
 334 KimNilsson
 335 Does nominations have to come through a single official channel? And are self-nominations before the AGM ok, or only at the AGM? 
 336 19:52:43
 337 Etienne
 338 The annual report will be sent one week before the AGM to the association members. I hope we will have a financial report as well. What I heart from the treasurer, this is on the way. 
 339 19:53:08
 340 bdmc
 341 Thank you, Etienne.   Going back to Item 2.3 
 342 19:53:29
 343 egal
 344 one week before the agm? ... means: saturday? ... or do you plan to send it sunday to receive the latest team-reports? 
 345 19:53:49
 346 (being a little bit late this year writing the reports ... ;-( ) 
 347 19:54:51
 348 Etienne
 349 The president's report should be sent seven days before the AGM to the members (or before). The team reports should be avilable on the wiki as soon as possible. 
 350 19:55:23
 351 egal
 352 so i have all the time until agm ... ;-) 
 353 19:55:27
 354 Etienne
 355 egal: do not write reports, just (in german) Repörtlein. 
 356 19:55:43
 357 egal
 358 (try to finish the reports this weekend ... ;-) ) 
 359 19:56:15
 360 KimNilsson
 361 yeah, no essays, right - only asking for broad conceptual descriptions of what happended during the year 
 362 19:56:21
 363 Etienne
 364 As you have wiki edit access ;-) 
 365 19:58:43
 366 bdmc
 367 Does anybody have any suggestions for the three questions in Item 2.3? 
 368 19:58:51
 369 KimNilsson
 370 Ok, so 2.3.1 - What we will suggest the new committee to continue. 
 371 19:59:04
 372 Etienne
 373 Maybe we merge 3&4, that could be easyier. 
 374 19:59:06
 375 bdmc
 376 Keep on keeping on. 
 377 19:59:31
 378 Etienne, I considered that.  We'll see how it goes. 
 379 19:59:35
 380 KimNilsson
 381 Browser certificate creation - there is a promising bit of code there 
 382 19:59:45
 383 bdmc
 384 So I hear. 
 385 20:00:11
 386 Do I remember that it is Javascript-based? 
 387 20:00:27
 388 So it will run in users' browsers? 
 389 20:01:19
 390 egal
 391 but ... is this something board should take continue? ... that's software (as well as finalizing the openid-connect-stuff) 
 392 20:01:44
 393 main item should be to raise manpower ... ;-) 
 394 20:01:44
 395 KimNilsson
 396 egal: ahhhh, so true - good catch! 
 397 20:01:46
 398 bdmc
 399 I agree.  We should direct general directions, not specifics. 
 400 20:02:36
 401 egal
 402 more manpower (you may gender it as you like) give more speed in development/... etc. 
 403 20:02:37
 404 KimNilsson
 405 So, I change my proposition to: "Stop micro managing!" :-) 
 406 20:03:06
 407 Etienne
 408 egal: Actually, board doesn't have to do anything but having a look and the AGM. We set ourselves annual goals, which a team or individuals then implement. 
 409 20:03:26
 410 bdmc
 411 KimNilsson: I have tried to avoid that in the past.  Have we been doing that? 
 412 20:04:00
 413 Etienne
 414 The stronger the community, the less the board needs to do. At the moment, a part of us is in the intersection. 
 415 20:04:21
 416 bdmc
 417 A part?   Aren't we all wearing too many hats? 
 418 20:04:54
 419 KimNilsson
 420 bdmc: We often get stuck in such discussions, when we should't. software and Critical Teams should always do what is best, andn ot have to wait for Board decisions. 
 421 20:05:07
 422 "and not have to" 
 423 20:05:41
 424 bdmc
 425 Exactly.  Again, we should be setting direction, not doing the job of the teams. 
 426 20:06:18
 427 KimNilsson
 428 Etienne: Exactly, that is what I expected the Board do, but then in every meeting we dig so incredibly deep down into things that Teams are responsible for and should do without decisions by Board. 
 429 20:06:32
 430 Etienne
 431 I want to restart the conversation with Guy regarding OrgA. That was left undone this year. 
 432 20:06:49
 433 bdmc
 434 I agree. 
 435 20:08:05
 436 bdmc
 437 Perhaps, and this may not be a today thing, but after the AGM, we should create a list of "important" things that CAcert needs.  More People, at the top of the list.   OrgA is important, too. 
 438 20:08:14
 439 KimNilsson
 440 That sounds like a great fit for 2.3.3 - things that we didn't do. 
 441 20:08:15
 442 FD
 443 I would add three recommendations: (1) solve problems by following the path of least resistance, in a "start-up" spirit; (2) give friendly encouragement to active members for any initiative that promotes human face-to-face communication; (3) build in the next two years a service offer for IT equipment manufacturers without PKI. 
 444 20:09:16
 445 bdmc
 446 Why face-to-face?   What about Remote Assurances? 
 447 20:11:23
 448 bdmc
 449 I would think that a more general goal might be to broaden, or re-establish, the presence of CAcert in the world of communications. 
 450 20:12:17
 451 ( or secure communications ) 
 452 20:13:44
 453 FD
 454 My English is not as precise as my French. I meant, "by talking to each other" rather than "by writing to each other". Giving priority to team spirit, to cooperation, by favouring what makes us know each other, rather than relying on email, which mainly transmits "things to do", which we don't do. 
 455 20:14:38
 456 bdmc
 457 Could I suggest that we set our first meeting after the AGM, December, of course, as without many of the regular items, but instead me concentrating on goal setting and defining. 
 458 20:14:43
 459 Etienne
 460 Remote assurance is also talking... to someone I can see. 
 461 20:14:57
 462 bdmc
 463 ( instead me >> instead be ) 
 464 20:16:26
 465 KimNilsson
 466 FD: yes - text communication is fine for booking a live meeting - it's extremely inefficient for discussion. 
 467 20:18:31
 468 KimNilsson
 469 Typing an email for (half) an hour is often easily resolved in a five minute conversation. 
 470 20:18:45
 471 FD
 472 And also to get to know each other, appreciate each other, help each other. 
 473 20:19:28
 474 KimNilsson
 475 As long as people talk _on topic_, else a live meeting can just as easily have an indefinite length. 
 476 20:19:49
 477 egal
 478 the disadvantage is, that we exclude every non-english member from following the meeting ... (translating text is way easier than translating speed) 
 479 20:20:18
 480 KimNilsson
 481 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
 482 20:20:52
 483 egal
 484 so i suggest to do it hybrid (as we did before: talking via BBB or jitsi while one (or more) members are adding and reading text to/from IRC) 
 485 20:21:22
 486 KimNilsson
 487 However... back to reality... how often do we have members present without English conversational skills? 
 488 20:22:01
 489 You are, of course, right, egal 
 490 20:23:08
 491 Etienne
 492 That is exactly, what we talked tonight at xx:40.... 
 493 20:23:13
 494 KimNilsson
 495 Yes, making sure that _decisions_ are put into text. Also voting in text. 
 496 20:23:25
 497 bdmc
 498 KimNilsson: Fortunately, you are not asking the opposite.  I took French for a dozen years in school, into University, but have had not need to keep it up, and could not participate today. 
 499 20:23:33
 500 Etienne
 501 and distributing short information 
 502 20:24:03
 503 bdmc
 504 ( not need >>> no need ) 
 505 20:24:58
 506 KimNilsson
 507 bdmc: for sure, but French isn't even in the same ballpark when we're talking about universality. Which is why we use English in these conversations, and I'm fairly sure that not even those who do speak French or German would truly consider we switch. 
 508 20:25:04
 509 bdmc
 510 ( nothing about my English writing skills!!! ) 
 511 20:25:13
 512 Etienne
 513 bdmc: I propose that we start holding the meetings in French. In 12 months at the latest, you will have 200% better chances on the job market! 
 514 20:25:19
 515 KimNilsson
 516 hah 
 517 20:25:35
 518 bdmc
 519 B-) 
 520 20:26:20
 521 I have seen no response to my suggestions at xx:11 and xx:14, above. 
 522 20:26:43
 523 Also, have we talked enough about Items 2.3 and 2.4? 
 524 20:26:53
 525 KimNilsson
 526 Anyway, this is all well and fun (the things Frederic wishes we do more) but the meeting stalls when we go off on tangents like this. :-) 
 527 20:26:59
 528 Etienne
 529 suggestions x:14: I agree. I noted already on my paper. 
 530 20:27:40
 531 KimNilsson
 532 It's super hard for me to take minutes when the discussions aren't actually on topic enough to write. :-) 
 533 20:27:56
 534 bdmc
 535 OK, since I have not seen Michael, we will skip ahead to Item 2.7. 
 536 20:28:13
 537 Who is going to talk on this one? 
 538 20:28:22
 539 Etienne
 540 And not a board goal, but a task for me and egal: finish the big cca  mailing. As the EUR IBAN just arrived, there is no more excuse :-( 
 541 20:29:26
 542 Etienne
 543 2.7. The transition is on the way, first mails from BIT arrived this week (I did not read them until now). 
 544 20:29:52
 545 FD
 546 We had had discussions between Dirk, Michael, and me. Unfortunately, I don't remember being directly involved in the preparation of a document, as the agenda seems to say. Or had I committed myself to doing so, and did not? 
 547 20:30:38
 548 bdmc
 549 egal: Anything? 
 550 20:32:14
 551 KimNilsson
 552 FD: The agenda has said exactly that since August. 
 553 20:32:18
 554 egal
 555 the last invoice secure-u got from BIT had etiennes postal address .... 
 556 20:32:42
 557 KimNilsson
 558 FD: In July the agenda said: Secretary got in touch with Mark O. for paperwork. Next step: Sign the contract on behalf of Cacert Inc. 
 559 20:32:57
 560 egal
 561 ... so i assume the handover from secure-u to CAcert (regarding BIT) is fisnihed ... 
 562 20:33:46
 563 bdmc
 564 That's good news. 
 565 20:33:55
 566 KimNilsson
 567 Here's where that phrase comes from: 2.5.1 future of secure-U - Michael asked for an inventory. Frédéric and Dirk started some paperwork; Mark O and Etienne R are waiting until this is done 
 568 20:34:30
 569 egal
 570 inventory will be done at next visit at BIT (planned in ~2 weeks) 
 571 20:34:43
 572 Etienne
 573 Thank you! 
 574 20:35:12
 575 bdmc
 576 Good.  Moving on to Item 2.8 -- Background checks. 
 577 20:35:22
 578 Anything other than what we see in the Agenda? 
 579 20:35:46
 580 Etienne
 581 I do not think so. 
 582 20:36:04
 583 KimNilsson
 584 I've heard nothing about mine since last. 
 585 20:36:41
 586 bdmc
 587 OK.  Well, since Item 2.10 says everything that is known, I would say that we have reached the end of the "formal" Agenda. 
 588 20:37:02
 589 Does anybody present have any questions for anybody? 
 590 20:37:50
 591 egal
 592 2.9 ? 
 593 20:38:12
 594 ccc congress (and of the year) is cancelled 
 595 20:38:21
 596 bdmc
 597 Yes, you are correct.  I didn't see anything mentioned there. 
 598 20:38:31
 599 Etienne
 600 why? 
 601 20:38:41
 602 bdmc
 603 Oh, no.  The end of the year is cancelled? 
 604 20:38:49
 605 egal
 606 fosdem is announced (beginning february) ... but i'm not sure, if i'll be there ... depends on corona-situation ... 
 607 20:38:51
 608 KimNilsson
 609 2022 FOREVER MAN! 
 610 20:39:19
 611 egal
 612 ccc-camp is announced for august next year ... 
 613 20:39:46
 614 (doing a lot of typos today ... as i'm a little but ill ... ;-( ) 
 615 20:40:13
 616 bdmc
 617 I'm not, but I am doing that too! 
 618 20:40:19
 619 KimNilsson
 620 (and the lack of comma between "forever" and "man" gives is a slight unclear meaning) 
 621 20:40:31
 622 Guess we're all doing it today. :-) 
 623 20:41:45
 624 Etienne
 625 FD: any news from Wacław? 
 626 20:46:08
 627 KimNilsson
 628 Oh, I can mention something here too - I did during Wednesday meeting (twice I think). 
 629 20:47:02
 630 I started documenting the idea of moving some CAcert content out from behind the "walled garden" of CAcert's root cert, in this file. https://nextcloud.cacert.org/index.php/apps/files?dir=/CAcert%20board/Work%20products&fileid=5957 
 631 20:47:31
 632 Since I only brought up the concept, and don't know what is possible, and what isn't, everyone is invited to contribute. 
 633 20:47:39
 634 FD
 635 @Etienne: No, but on my initiative I was only in contact with him at the beginning of the year. 
 636 20:48:16
 637 KimNilsson
 638 Especially in the Research part. And of course in the parts currently called Preparation and _Flipping the switch_. 
 639 20:48:19
 640 bdmc
 641 KimNilsson: I thought that it was cast in stone!   B-)  Yes, I started reading it, but I forget where I put it! 
 642 20:49:15
 643 KimNilsson
 644 I have taken some input from a few of you, but my wording may be incorrect, so feel free to adjust anything I have written so far - or clarify. 
 645 20:49:35
 646 bdmc
 647 FD: I'm not sure whether he expects people to do things for him with not contributing anything. 
 648 20:50:16
 649 KimNilsson
 650 The most important things is that the information ons "what is CAcert" and "what to expect when joining" needs to be available before forcing users to add an "unkonw" root certificate to their device. 
 651 20:50:28
 652 bdmc
 653 I completely agree. 
 654 20:51:04
 655 KimNilsson
 656 Both Drik and Jan has commented that it should probably be fairly easy to do. 
 657 20:51:45
 658 then there is a somewhat larger project of restructuring the "heavy stuff" from cacert.org to api.cacert.org - but that's not part of this project. 
 659 20:52:06
 660 Etienne
 661 Maybe we move https://wiki.cacert.org/engagement with all translations also to one of this pages. 
 662 20:52:23
 663 KimNilsson
 664 This is just supposesd to be - how to make it easier to welcome a new person who just heard about CAcert. 
 665 20:52:31
 666 Etienne: exactly 
 667 20:52:50
 668 As can be seen in my doc, wiki is actually accessible without https 
 669 20:53:18
 670 So if links don't start with https, they are open. 
 671 20:53:53
 672 But, yes, perhaps what Jan calls "static page serving" is perhaps easier to manage. 
 673 20:56:21
 674 KimNilsson
 675 Etienne: I added the Engagement idea in the list. 
 676 20:56:44
 677 alright, I'm good - if nothing else, I'm absolutely ready to go do other things :-) 
 678 20:56:51
 679 bdmc
 680 Well, we are coming up to the top of the hour. 
 681 20:57:11
 682 Does anybody have anything else, or are we done? 
 683 20:57:29
 684 egal
 685 only a small thing ... (for this meeting) 
 686 20:57:39
 687 bdmc
 688 egal:  go for it! 
 689 20:57:47
 690 egal
 691 some meetings ago there was the decision about hardware renewal ... 
 692 20:58:10
 693 bdmc
 694 And you have been proceeding with that. 
 695 20:58:26
 696 egal
 697 jandd is currently planning a replacement server for infra02/03, which uses way less power ... 
 698 20:58:43
 699 bdmc
 700 Oh, no.  We can't have that.   B-) 
 701 20:58:47
 702 egal
 703 ... the cost of this new server will then be around 3500 euros ... 
 704 20:59:07
 705 bdmc
 706 Unfortunately, we don't have Michael here. 
 707 20:59:34
 708 egal
 709 (cost not final up to now) ... but you/we should think about it maybe until the next boardmeeting ... 
 710 21:00:28
 711 bdmc
 712 My reading of his report suggests that that would be half of the bank account. 
 713 21:00:31
 714 egal
 715 (it's not urgent ... the question came up after migration of otrs ... shall we buy SSDs for the old machines or save this money and buy a new machine ... 
 716 21:01:14
 717 bdmc
 718 However, as you say, this is probably a good thing, instead of spending the money on operations, spend it on capital expenses. 
 719 21:01:37
 720 Etienne
 721 Are there any possibilities to get such a machine cheaper? Partnership? Sponsoring? 
 722 21:01:48
 723 bdmc
 724 Capital expenses, are one and done. 
 725 21:02:24
 726 Etienne: good questions. 
 727 21:02:55
 728 egal
 729 currently it's only "thinking about" ... no decision needed up to now as the planned configuration is not finalized ... 
 730 21:03:26
 731 bdmc
 732 OK, thank you all.  Any more? 
 733 21:03:39
 734 Etienne
 735 Example: Manufacturer X supplies us for free or at half price. At the same time, we tell our 350,000 members this and enclose a 10% voucher from the manufacturer. How many will buy their new device there? 
 736 21:04:16
 737 FD
 738 Brent from Luxembourg can buy servers from Germany at distributor prices. But it all depends on the model of motherboard, chassis, and options that Jan and Dirk have in mind. 
 739 21:05:18
 740 egal
 741 jan ... as it's infra, not critical ... ;-) 
 742 21:06:28
 743 FD
 744 A bit off topic, what did we finally decide and do in September regarding the registrar of our domains? 
 745 21:06:44
 746 KimNilsson
 747 Etienne & FD - good ideas - worth looking into when Jan has presented what hardware he suggests. 
 748 21:07:06
 749 egal
 750 @fd .. good point ... that's missing on todays agenda ... ;-( 
 751 21:07:39
 752 cacert.com and cacert.net are at joker now, cacert.org is still at gkg as it was too late to change registrar ... 
 753 21:08:13
 754 during our wednesday meetings i asked, which data should be set up a domain owner, tech-C, admin-C, billing contact etc ... 
 755 21:08:26
 756 FD
 757 That was the decision we made? 
 758 21:08:26
 759 Etienne
 760 cacert.ch is at infomaniak 
 761 21:08:39
 762 KimNilsson
 763 egal & FD - not really missing on the agenda, other than if we needed an item where Dirk says what he just did. 
 764 21:09:02
 765 FD: The decision was that Criticalö Team decides and does what is necessary. 
 766 21:09:19
 767 2.7 New registrar - Brian moves that CAcert's Critical Team be authorised to choose a new registrar for CAcert's purposes, at a time appropriate for their needs. Accepted. 
 768 21:09:38
 769 So, not a Board item anymore. 
 770 21:09:40
 771 FD
 772 Ah? I understand. 
 773 21:10:14
 774 egal
 775 the domain data (owner/...) should be decided by board ... but can be done afterwards ... 
 776 21:10:26
 777 KimNilsson
 778 That's why it's not on the agenda for October and November. 
 779 21:11:09
 780 bdmc
 781 egal: You just need to bring it to the Board when you need answers. 
 782 21:11:20
 783 KimNilsson
 784 ^^, 
 785 21:11:27
 786 Etienne
 787 Dirk, make a suggestions that we can approve or change. Next meeting seems to be on Dec 1st, so sent it some days before to me. 
 788 21:11:53
 789 egal
 790 @bdmc correct ... that's why i said it during our wednesday meetings ... but then forgot to send it to etienne ... 
 791 21:12:40
 792 bdmc
 793 Etienne: Unless there is something critical, I want to reserve that meeting for the other topic. 
 794 21:14:15
 795 bdmc
 796 Well, as I have said before, I am ready to finish this meeting.  Any objections? 
 797 21:14:40
 798 KimNilsson
 799 bdmc: I'm thinking that's a supersimple vote. Dirk prsents the three (four) contact info needed for the registrar (do talk about it during the Wednesday meetings before then), and we vote Aye. 
 800 21:15:19
 801 bdmc
 802 I agree, true.  Just not necessarily something that needs to be decided "yesterday." 
 803 21:15:40
 804 KimNilsson
 805 Exactly, but it feels like a good thing the new board could/should decide. 
 806 21:16:15
 807 In the unlikely event it isn't us, perhaps they'd want other names for those contacts. 
 808 21:16:49
 809 bdmc
 810 But this is an update to an existing record.  These records have existed for a few months already, one more shouldn't be critical. 
 811 21:17:07
 812 egal: What do you think? 
 813 21:18:23
 814 egal
 815 currently it's on my names ... but it should have the current addresses (postal/email) so e.g. treasurer can then renew the domains ... 
 816 21:18:57
 817 bdmc
 818 Which will take place in nine months or so. 
 819 21:19:06
 820 More than six. 
 821 21:19:57
 822 egal
 823 (however: autorenew is set ... so if treasurer fails to renew it's on my invoice to avoid loosing the domain ... ;-) ) 
 824 21:20:18
 825 bdmc
 826 Until the names are changed. 
 827 21:21:32
 828 bdmc
 829 If the other members want to address this in December, I will concur. 
 830 21:22:26
 831 egal
 832 as i said: could be done between the meetings ... and i don't think, that we need a formal motion ... ;-) 
 833 21:23:21
 834 KimNilsson
 835 I don't either. The contact info should be what is best for the purpose of the contact, not necessarily what the board thinks. 
 836 21:23:52
 837 going back to Frederic's idead of "least resitance". 
 838 21:23:55
 839 idea 
 840 21:23:59
 841 omg 
 842 21:24:13
 843 bdmc
 844 OK, I think that this is enough for today.  I hereby declare this meeting concluded.   See you all in a week or so. 
 845 21:24:13
 846 KimNilsson
 847 and "resistance 
 848 21:24:20
 849 bye all 
 850 21:24:36
 851 bdmc
 852 Good night gentlemen. 
 853 21:25:25
 854 Etienne
 855 good night 
 856 21:25:28
 857 FD
 858 Good night to all! Thank you Brian for leading our agenda. 
 859 21:25:29
 860 KimNilsson
 861 o/ 
 862 21:25:45
 863         o/ 
 864 21:25:51
 865                         o/ 
 866 21:25:51
 867 egal
 868 good night ... see you next week again during AGM ... ;-) 
 869 21:25:54
 870 Etienne
 871 KimNilsson: can you send me the link of the minutes, please? 
 872 21:26:12
 873 FD
 874 Goodnight Dirk. 
 875 21:26:18
 876 KimNilsson
 877 (me walking away, while still at the keyboard)                     o/ 
 878 21:26:19
 879 :-) 
 880 21:26:28
 881 https://nextcloud.cacert.org/apps/files/?dir=/CAcert%20board/CAcert%20-%20Committee%20meetings&openf... 
 882 21:26:34
 883 Etienne
 884 Thank you! 
 885 21:28:06
 886 ← KimNilsson est parti du salon  
 887 21:28:19
 888 ← FD est parti du salon  
 889 21:30:39
 890 ← bdmc a quitté (Quit: leaving) 
 891