21:01:29 [NickServ] Welcome to CAcert, Etienne! Here on CAcert, we provide services to enable the registration of nicknames and channels! For details, type /msg NickServ help and /msg ChanServ help. 21:01:29 → Etienne est entré 21:02:01 → KimNilsson est entré 21:02:05 KimNilsson Present. 21:02:25 Etienne Good evening Kim 21:02:46 Hello Sascha and Michael 21:02:53 Hello Brian and Dirk 21:04:45 bdmc I guess that I will wait a few minutes to start, since Dirk said that he was still on the road ( he isn't necessary to start ), and Kim and Etienne are the only other two that I am sure are here. 21:06:35 KimNilsson mcr: recently typed in the Telegram 21:06:52 dirk will not arrive for another 20+ minutes. 21:07:29 Etienne I apologise for the delay. My wife is currently in her home country and called a quarter of an hour before the meeting started. It was a bit tight from the telephone to the desk. 21:08:15 bdmc No problem, Etienne. You are here earlier than most. 21:08:50 KimNilsson Minutes here, https://nextcloud.cacert.org/apps/files/?dir=/CAcert%20board/CAcert%20-%20Committee%20meetings&openf... 21:08:57 Etienne Yesterday, I discovered our goals for 2021/22: 8 goals. no one though, we will achieve them. 21:09:48 One became obsolete thanks to our work, two are on the way and one is ready to start. Not bad. And there are still months until AGM 2022! 21:10:49 bdmc Technically, we are in next year already! B-) 21:11:01 Thank you, Kim. 21:11:42 I have a deadline of less than two hours, but I don't really want to start with only three. 21:12:40 KimNilsson sat: & mcr - you almost here? 21:16:30 Etienne bdmc: as Kim did already 1.2, we could start with 1.1, 1.3, 1.4 and 2.1 and 2.2 and look then if we are more? 21:18:45 bdmc Etienne: Agreed 21:18:56 Let us set the start time as xx:18. 21:19:06 Etienne Agenda: https://wiki.cacert.org/Brain/CAcertInc/Committee/MeetingAgendasAndMinutes/2022-08-04 21:19:08 bdmc I hereby call this meeting to order. 21:19:48 → FD est entré 21:19:57 bdmc Etienne: Is there anything in the mailing lists that we want to add to our meeting? 21:20:03 ( Welcome Frederic ) 21:20:49 Nothing heard. 21:20:51 Etienne I did not see anything in the mailing lists (only what I sent) 21:20:59 bdmc Thank you 21:21:25 FD Good evening all! I've just returned home (Metro service interruption at Gare de Lyon) 21:21:26 bdmc Would someone like to make the motion to accept last month's minutes? 21:21:33 Etienne https://wiki.cacert.org/Brain/CAcertInc/Committee/MeetingAgendasAndMinutes/2022-07-07#Minutes 21:21:46 I move to accept the minutes of the committee meeting of 7th of July 2022. 21:21:56 bdmc Thank you -- Secon? 21:22:00 ( second ) 21:22:03 Etienne aye 21:22:17 bdmc Do I have a seconder? 21:23:18 KimNilsson Seconded 21:23:47 Aye 21:23:48 bdmc Thank you. All in favour? 21:24:00 I am abstaining, because I was not present. 21:24:34 Continuing. 21:24:36 FD The same for me 21:25:16 bdmc Item 2.1.1 -- I gather that we are still waiting on results, here, correct? 21:26:35 bdmc Item 2.2.2 and 3. I saw the correspondence between Etienne and Mario in e-mail ( in German ), so I gather that we have no news here. 21:27:11 Item 2.3 -- Michael is not currently here -- Etienne, do you have any news? 21:27:24 Etienne Mario asked me to ping him until he does it. 21:28:37 Etienne I hav to resign a contract with the bank in paper. The paper is in the snail mail to me. Then we get the Euro account (do to new national regulations of the authorithies, just normal buraucracy) 21:28:53 bdmc Thank you. 21:28:57 FD 2.3.1 -> As far as the NextERP roll-out is concerned, which I have committed to do, I will do it. 21:30:00 Etienne Thank you, Frédéric. 21:30:15 bdmc Item 2.4 -- Jan just did some major restructuring of the code, so I have had to go back and make my part of the project conform. I am still working to Dirk's desired deadline. 21:30:33 Etienne Should I put it on the agenda from Sept/Okt/Nov next time, FD? 21:32:25 FD Rather on the October agenda, please. 21:32:35 Etienne Great, what you (Jan and Brian) do! 21:32:45 mcr I'm here! 21:33:01 KimNilsson Etienne: & FD - like I mentioned in the email - yes, please, push it, so we don't have to alk about it again, until it's actually done. Or we miss talking about it. :-) 21:33:10 Hi Michael 21:33:18 Etienne Hello Michael 21:35:09 bdmc Greetings Michael. We just passed Item 2.3, and Etienne reported that he was waiting on a paper document from the bank. 21:35:28 mcr I have the bank statements from Westpac for 2021/2022 now so I will update the spreadsheet. We will have to move money soon, so I guess given the continuing lack of access to the Swiss account, I will be forced to do that via proxy through Etienne. I sure hope that we get the Euro account open by the time we have to start spending money. 21:36:23 bdmc mcr: You say that we must move money soon. Is that just so that we are able to spend it, or for some other reason? 21:36:47 Etienne bdmc, do you trust PP? 21:38:53 bdmc There are a lot of stories of failures there, as well as our own experience. Michael was talking about Westpac, I thought. 21:38:58 mcr bdmc, I don't really trust PP to not lose our money. They aren't a bank, don't have deposit insurance. 21:39:21 I do trust them to transfer the money from Westpac -> Swiss bank. 21:39:39 bdmc OK. Just clarifying. 21:40:16 mcr I'd like it all transfered to an Euro account at Swiss bank, whatever they are called... GKB. 21:40:47 bdmc And close the Westpac accounts? 21:40:47 egal salue 21:41:00 mcr closing the Westpac accounts is probably impossible :-) 21:41:09 getting people to stop sending money there is enough. 21:41:18 KimNilsson PP = PayPal? (I only have personal experience that they have really high fees for sending and receiving money. Guess that's why Elon could sell it for so much back in the day.) 21:41:19 mcr it's maybe 100EU/year at most now. 21:41:22 KimNilsson Evening, Dirk 21:41:24 bdmc OK, so mostly you are talking about PayPal. 21:42:03 mcr PP's fees aren't really that high compared to many other banks, it's just a) more transparent to receivers, so they are more surprised, b) other banks often bury the fees in the FX fees. 21:42:13 KimNilsson gotcha 21:44:21 bdmc Done? 21:45:26 bdmc Item 2.5 -- Michael, you might know something about this. 21:46:40 mcr 2.5... let me read. 21:47:13 Oh. Yes. So I think we just remove the inventory from the document, and sign it. 21:47:26 I'd even like to move that today/now. 21:47:44 bdmc Certainly. Make the motion. 21:47:45 mcr I thought the inventory would be trivial to fill in, but if it's not, then let's not do that. 21:48:04 bdmc If you need to make a motion. 21:48:06 mcr I move that we remove the inventory from the document circulated on nextcloud, and sign it on behalf of CACERT. 21:48:10 egal inventory for 2.5 means? 21:48:22 mcr The list of stuff that's in the cabinet. 21:48:47 bdmc I second that motion. 21:48:55 Any discussion? 21:49:19 mcr can egal tell us the cabinet designation/number? 21:49:20 Etienne This is not clear as motion. 21:49:35 mcr Okay. 21:49:52 egal ah ... will try to compile the list in the next days ... and verify it during the next visit planned later the month or september 21:50:15 mcr I move that we sign the document at: https://nextcloud.cacert.org/s/EgdrpwwxLrtwgE3 with the cabinet number filled in. 21:50:16 Etienne Something like "I move that the transfer of the contract at BIT from secureU to CAcert be signed by CAcert Inc." would be clearer to me. 21:50:25 bdmc Hmmm. Since we are removing this information from the contract, do we need to discuss details now? 21:50:28 mcr I move that the transfer of the contract at BIT from secureU to CAcert be signed by CAcert Inc. 21:50:53 Etienne second and aye 21:51:06 bdmc Any other discussion? 21:51:33 KimNilsson (sidetracking ... mcr - Ignore this until you feel it's interesting enough to respond to.) I just feel that PP asking for % of the transferred amount is gouging. I sent €1200 to pay for our vacation house, and the fee was only € 0.15. PP subtracts 3.5% whenever I get paid. That's expensive. 21:51:37 egal there is some older hardware on my site (alix board and 10/100 gb-switches) ... 21:52:08 mcr half-cabinet (BIT-2B.2.1-B) 21:52:24 I found it in the last invoice. 21:52:56 egal, I don't care about anything that's not *in* the cabinet. I just want SecureU to be sure that everything that's in the cabinet is getting transfered :-) 21:52:57 egal ... and sun4/broken signer etc. ... what to do with this hardware? keep it at my site on behalv of CAcert Inc.? 21:52:59 mcr no backsies :-) 21:53:27 if you want to rid your place of junk, then ... let's put that on the list. 21:53:33 maybe someone else wants it for parts. 21:53:44 Etienne Spare parts? 21:53:50 egal it's hardware, which was in the cabinet when secure-u got it ... and then removed/replaced by newer hardware ... 21:53:53 Etienne CAcert museum? 21:54:12 bdmc From what I hear, they are antiques. 21:54:28 All in favour of Michael's motion? 21:54:31 Aye 21:54:34 Etienne Sell them as antiques. Money is allways welcome. 21:54:38 KimNilsson Aye 21:55:11 egal so let's keep it for now at my site ... and think about it later ... 21:56:09 bdmc I'm looking for a couple more votes. 21:57:03 OK. Moving on. Item 2.6 -- Background Checks. Nothing to report? 21:57:04 Etienne FD? sat? 21:57:22 bdmc I don't think that sat is here. 21:57:41 Etienne 2.6.: Ted is activly searching dates for new checks. egal gives he a hand. 21:57:46 FD I vote yes to Michael's motion. 21:57:48 KimNilsson I have been contacted about BGC, and responded that I'm open all timeslots mentioned.. 21:58:27 mcr great. 21:58:35 will we sign with SMIME or PGP :-) 21:59:14 bdmc Oh, SMIME of course! That's who we are, isn't it? 21:59:45 That's a technical detail, unless you want more members of the Board to sign as well. 22:00:24 mcr it was a rhetorical question actually. I think we are directing the secretary to sign the document, and send a detached signature to SecureU. 22:00:31 egal reagarding background checks i got an email from ted ... need to answer it as soon as there is some time this month ... 22:01:22 bdmc Next, Item 2.7 -- Dirk ( and others? ) is advertising FrosCon. 22:01:46 Etienne PR will contact assurers from around within next days. 22:02:11 egal do we have a text to be sent from critical system? 22:02:19 bdmc Etienne: Is this regarding 2.7? 22:02:29 Etienne bdmc: yes! 22:02:39 egal (like we did for ATEs ages ago?) 22:02:43 bdmc Sorry. Didn't understand. 22:02:49 Etienne I will check with Alex for the text. 22:03:18 bdmc: a mailing to local assurers ca. 30 miles / 50 km around froscon. 22:03:29 egal please add ted in CC ... so he could give the OK from arbitration POV 22:04:01 bdmc Etienne: Understood 22:06:03 egal 50 km is too short ... if we use 85 km, ruhrgebiet is in the range ... 22:07:46 KimNilsson bdmc: egal: jan ... 2.8 New CSR - any movement? (if not, take it off the agenda until someone is ready to act on it, or until there is some movement?) 22:08:22 egal for CSR you should ask ted, not me ... 22:08:55 Etienne bdmc: remove or bring it again in 4, 6, 8 month? 22:09:23 KimNilsson We don't have to decie how long ti should be off. 22:09:43 Etienne OK, i put in the "to not forget" list 22:10:03 bdmc Etienne: What I was thinking, too. Thanks 22:10:04 KimNilsson That's a perfect thing someone can just mentiuon during a Wednesday meeting - "hey, it's been a long time and nothing on CSR... should we bring it up on the next meeting?" 22:10:15 That works. 22:11:13 bdmc As far as Item 2.9 -- I haven't heard anything from Eva since June, I think. Dirk? 22:11:25 Etienne "At the moment I'm busy with something else, but I hope to get back to 22:11:25 this over the summer. Please ping me to remind me of this project if I 22:11:25 come not back to it by myself. " (11. June 2022) 22:11:41 bdmc I know that she has been busy with giving presentations at conferences. 22:11:47 Etienne (mail from Eva @bdmc) 22:11:55 egal eva has to hold a talk on froscon in 2 1/2 weeks ... so she's quite busy with it ... 22:12:13 (and ... she was on holiday = MCH and haxogreen) during the last 2 weeks ...) 22:12:31 KimNilsson That's great, then perhaps Eva will be able to say hi during September meeting, or email a Hello. 22:12:33 bdmc Etienne: Let's skip a month on this one. Bring it back in October. 22:12:33 Etienne egal, we just to try to find out when we should recontact Eva: August, Sept, Okt, .. 22:12:42 Okt. OK 22:12:48 KimNilsson Octobeer is fine too. Good. 22:13:11 egal i'm in contact to eva nearly every day (business) ... 22:13:16 KimNilsson Remind her now, like she asked to be. Then wait for her. 22:13:20 bdmc KimNilsson: Did you really mean that spelling? 22:13:33 B-) 22:13:33 egal as soon as froscon is done i'll give her a reminder ... ;-) 22:13:42 bdmc egal: Thank you 22:14:05 And, finally, Item 2.10 -- Our AGM 22:14:05 KimNilsson haha, that would fit just right that month, if I remember correctly :-) 22:14:35 bdmc There has been talk about dates, and I think that the consensus is the 12th. 22:14:57 Will we go with the "traditional" time, 20:00 UTC? 22:15:01 KimNilsson I'm all for the 12th, and haven't we all said 12th? Second question was about time. Someone had an ask about time. 22:15:53 Etienne 20:00 UTC would be Sat 20:00 GMT / 20:00 UTC / Sat 21:00 CET (Berlin/Zurich) / Sat 15:00 EDT (New York) / Sun 07:00 AEDT (Sydney) 22:16:28 mcr I asked about time, because on the Nov. 12th, I will be at IETF115, just finishing, and should decide if I am travelling that day or not. 22:16:45 (That will be in London) 22:17:03 bdmc mcr: Would you be comfortable on delaying your travel until Sunday or Monday? 22:17:33 ( comfortable with ) 22:17:34 KimNilsson I'm ok with it starting earlier. I've learned that AGMs tend to take time, and starting later will make the late decisions poor. 22:17:36 mcr Yes, so that's the point. I either travel Friday/Saturday morning, or I travel Sunday. I can work around it, I just need to know now :-) 22:17:42 Etienne Sat with CAcert, Sun at Westminster Abbey and Mon with the Queen? 22:18:00 mcr no, the Queen usually meets with me at the Abbey. 22:18:07 Etienne :-) 22:18:15 mcr we *do* share the same birthday. 22:18:20 (not birth year) 22:18:29 bdmc mcr: Wow, me too! 22:18:34 KimNilsson Most regent. 22:18:53 bdmc KimNilsson: The problem with that suggestion is the Australian time. 22:18:55 mcr bdmc, perhaps we can persuade the rest of the board to change their birthday for April. 22:19:34 I'm fine with 2000UTC. 22:19:40 KimNilsson Etienne: Riiiight. They are ahead, making it early Sunday morning there. 22:19:49 mcr I'd like to go out klubbing that night, but that's not until close to midnight :-) 22:20:17 Etienne When I was in the UK, they closed all Pubs at 23:00 22:20:29 KimNilsson I was always fine with 20:00 UTC. 22:20:50 Yes, they do. Pubs close at 23:00. Only night clubs allowed to be open later. 22:21:32 bdmc "members only" clubs, right? ( membership at the door, just 10 pounds ) 22:22:00 Etienne as CAcert Inc: members only for 10.-- 22:22:22 bdmc OK. We seem to be in agreement. 22:22:27 Etienne I move to fix Saturday, 12.Nov.2022, 20:00 UTC for the Annual General Meeting. 22:22:42 FD I second. 22:22:47 Etienne aye 22:22:51 FD yes 22:22:56 bdmc OK, I was starting to write that motion, but... Aye 22:23:15 mcr Aye! 22:23:26 bdmc Good enough. 22:23:38 KimNilsson Dunno, never went. Ended the nights with other exchange students at one of their houses instead. There was no time limit there. :-) Spring of 1998. University of Hull, north east England. 22:23:39 Etienne (bdmc: most motions are ready for copy paste or copy adapt paste in the agenda) 22:23:44 KimNilsson Aye 22:23:59 bdmc Question Time: Anybody have anything that they want to know? 22:24:05 FD Do we keep the cacert domains at our historical registrar, or do we port them to another, as Dirk proposed last year at this time? 22:25:28 Etienne are there reasons against that idea? 22:26:02 FD Reasons against which of the two options? 22:26:43 mcr I assume new registrar supports DNSSEC. Do they also support CDS? 22:26:44 Etienne Reasons against changing? Dirk gaave some reasons to change. If I remember well. 22:27:04 KimNilsson Moving to a decent not unnecessarily expensive registrar which can be easily paid from the Swiss account - sounds like good idea. 22:27:27 egal gkg is using dnssec, too ... 22:27:34 FD I ask the question, simply because I remember talking about it a few months ago with Dirk and Brian, both of whom recommended waiting until the summer to make the decision. Here we go 22:28:05 Etienne Decision = board? Execution = ?? 22:28:45 KimNilsson I'm all for it. Also no need to decide which it is. Nor which requirements. Board says do it. Technical / critical Team does it, or whoever is capable. 22:29:10 bdmc OK, so what are the Pros and Cons? 22:30:08 KimNilsson Moving means there could be a brief interference in services. But with the quite severe disturbances we've had during these last few months, it doesn't feel relevant. 22:31:38 FD I am not sure that it is now, at the end of the meeting, that we should debate the arguments pro and con. That's why I proposed to deal with the issue a little earlier. Today, perhaps we should just give ourselves a quick answer: do we want to think about it, or do we leave it as it is? 22:32:01 egal or talk next wednesday about it? 22:32:21 bdmc FD: O 22:32:48 FD: I'm sorry. I didn't see anything. I guess that if it wasn't in the Agenda, I didn't see it. 22:33:01 Etienne yes, please, think about it. This summer. so, there is enough time to do it, if we want. 22:33:10 KimNilsson I've put it in as Question time 3.1 :-) 22:33:12 FD I'm happy to do so. Would you remind us Dirk what the deadline is in September? 22:33:42 egal need to check ... (in the next days) 22:33:55 bdmc KimNilsson: I think that instead of 3.1, it should be a formal item in the Agenda. 22:34:10 ( under Business ) 22:34:27 KimNilsson Then that'll have to be next time. 22:34:35 bdmc Agreed 22:34:53 FD @Brian: this was not on the agenda, it was a simple question raised when you called for points outside the agenda. 22:34:59 KimNilsson Worded so in 3.1 now. :-) 22:35:24 2.10.2... AGM reports... need any more words on that? 22:35:57 It says Etienne that secretary is on that, so I assume you are. 22:36:02 Etienne No, just info and task, if you are in a team. 22:36:17 bdmc KimNilsson: It says that the Secretary needs to nag us, so that should be sufficient. 22:36:35 OK. Anything more, or shall we re-convene in September. Really, the 1st? 22:36:36 Etienne 3.2. Other question: Was the starting time 19 UTC only for this month (as we did 20 UTC in the other years and 18 UTC earlier this year) or for ever? 22:37:16 bdmc Etienne: Good point. Anybody? 22:37:29 KimNilsson We said to alternate 22:37:42 Then we actually did more than one 18:00 UTC in a row 22:38:45 KimNilsson The logical combo was to have 18:00 even months, and 19:00 odd months. 22:39:01 bdmc Oh, no! We can't have logic! 22:39:07 KimNilsson and since we messed up one month that is now skewed. 22:39:24 bdmc And where does 20 come in to it? 22:39:31 FD From my point of view, the sooner the better. I dread the thought of resuming those late night committee meetings that easily end for us Europeans after midnight, in between work days. 22:39:39 bdmc Or is that permanently lost? 22:39:52 Etienne From November UTC becomes 1 hour earlier in Europe. 22:39:57 KimNilsson Nobody wants 20:00 UTC for monthly meetings, only for AGM, as there are no Aussies on the board nowadays. 22:40:35 bdmc OK. I always try to keep these meetings to two hours or less. I need to leave soon, anyway. 22:40:36 egal 1930 was possible for me today ... 18 utc would have been too early ... 22:40:38 Etienne For me it makes a difference if it is Summer or Winter (do to daylightsavingtime) 22:41:24 KimNilsson EU has said to remove DST, but not decided on an actual time to do so. The irony. 22:41:54 bdmc There are thoughts here about setting time permanently to the DST version. 22:41:54 egal 21:00 local time is best for me ... ;-) 22:42:25 FD The European Union had decided, and set 2021 as the last year in which a shift would occur. 22:42:42 bdmc OK. So we have 18, 19 and 20 for the September meeting. Votes? 22:42:45 Etienne For me in Summer 18 and 19 works fine, in Winter 19 is better (until they removed DST) 22:43:33 egal ... and then they were not able to agree to permanent summer or winter time ... 22:43:35 FD Let's Let's try 18:00 UTC for the September meeting, when we are still in "summer hours"? 22:43:50 KimNilsson 1800 UTC is my vote 22:44:03 FD 18:00 UTC is my vote, too. 22:44:24 Etienne egal: do not worry, you join us just after the Preliminaries ... 22:44:30 KimNilsson egal: yeah, that too, but I think the science is on Winter time, which was the time before DST became a thing. 22:45:37 bdmc OK, just before I go, I will see you all on the 1st of September, at 18 UTC. 22:46:03 mcr: You still here? 18 work for you? 22:46:04 KimNilsson Brilliant. 22:46:12 FD Merci Brian ! 22:46:30 Etienne Thank you for chairing, bdmc; thank you for joining, KimNilsson, , FD, mcr, egal. 22:46:41 egal ;-) 22:46:47 bdmc Good night all! 22:47:14 Etienne Nice after noon, bdmc and mcr, good night... 22:47:36 ← bdmc a quitté (Quit: leaving) 22:47:42 KimNilsson Thank you and good night everyone. 22:47:44 FD Thank you Etienne, have a good evening Dirk. 22:47:56 ← FD est parti du salon 22:59:44 ← KimNilsson est parti du salon 6 Utilisateurs @ynazarov egal Etienne mcr nemunaire sat