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Welcome to CAcert, Etienne! Here on CAcert, we provide services to enable the registration of nicknames and channels! For details, type /msg NickServ help and /msg ChanServ help. 
22:00:12
→ Etienne est entré 
22:00:21
bdmc
Greetings Etienne. 
22:00:46
Etienne
Hello bdmc, FD, mcr, egal 
22:00:47
bdmc
Good evening, All 
22:01:32
I see enough of us to start, so I hereby call this meeting to order. 
22:01:42
FD
Hello Etienne, Brian, Michael. 
22:01:53
bdmc
Welcome to October. 
22:02:07
FD
Here we have the agenda: https://wiki.cacert.org/Brain/CAcertInc/Committee/MeetingAgendasAndMinutes/2021-10-07 
22:02:35
bdmc
As usual, we will try to limit our time as much as possible. 
22:03:05
mcr
present! 
22:03:05
FD
Here we have the live temporary notepad to keep track of the minutes: https://nextcloud.cacert.org/index.php/s/PC3iyxPkTfD8WC3 
22:03:37
bdmc
Skipping the first couple of items, are there any items in either the Board Mailing List or the Board Private Mailing List, that need to be brought to the group? 
22:04:53
mcr
I got connected to nextcloud, I noticed I was not logged in, I logged in and now I get: "File could not be loaded. Please check your internet connection." 
22:05:45
bdmc
That sounds like an iten for Support. 
22:05:45
mcr
I am now connected again, via the top menu. weird. 
22:05:54
→ pnunn_2 est entré 
22:06:04
bdmc
Definite inconsistancy. 
22:06:13
Welcome to the party, Peter. 
22:06:29
pnunn: Do you have your Agenda? 
22:06:44
pnunn_2
No, I don't think so. 
22:07:03
bdmc
FD: Would you please re-post that? 
22:07:16
pnunn_2
Took a while to find a functioning irc client. Sorry I'm late. Morning all. 
22:07:22
FD
Sure 
22:07:23
@Michael: you are visible on I can see you connected to the document on Nextcloud 
22:07:37
Good early morning, Peter! 
22:07:46
mcr
Yup, I can connected now. But the link above didn't really work once I decided I should login. 
22:07:55
FD
Here are the links for you too, Peter: 
22:07:57
Here we have the agenda: https://wiki.cacert.org/Brain/CAcertInc/Committee/MeetingAgendasAndMinutes/2021-10-07 
22:08:02
pnunn_2
Thank you. 
22:08:04
FD
Here we have the live temporary notepad to keep track of the minutes: https://nextcloud.cacert.org/index.php/s/PC3iyxPkTfD8WC3 
22:08:12
Here we have the audiochannel, in parallel to the classical IRC channel: https://conference.germanywestcentral.cloudapp.azure.com/b/ber-n8r-r5b-a1v 
22:08:15
mcr
@FD, I went to the main page, there was "recommended files", and I picked the first one. 
22:08:47
bdmc
Back to work:  Does anybody have any comments on the August Minutes? 
22:09:18
pnunn_2
All looked good to me. 
22:09:28
Etienne
https://wiki.cacert.org/Brain/CAcertInc/Committee/MeetingAgendasAndMinutes/2021-08-05#Minutes 
22:09:53
bdmc
Etienne:  Do you have a comment or question? 
22:09:58
pnunn_2
Shouldn't that be 0905? 
22:10:19
Etienne
No, no comment. 
22:10:27
bdmc
No, we have the August Minutes before the September ones. 
22:10:29
FD
They seem OK, but you know, we wait too long to approve them, frankly I can't remember what was discussed two months ago now 
22:10:30
Etienne
The president asked for August. 
22:10:50
pnunn_2
Ahh... sorry. 
22:10:52
Etienne
FD, we wrote them together. 
22:11:01
mcr
No comment on August. 
22:11:09
FD
No comment on August. 
22:11:22
bdmc
FD: If we don't have them ready for the meeting, we can't really vote on them. 
22:11:31
Etienne
I move to accept the minutes of August, 05, 2021. 
22:11:48
bdmc
In that case, may I have a motion to accept and approve the August Minutes? 
22:12:04
pnunn_2
second and aye 
22:12:07
Etienne
aye 
22:12:36
FD
yes 
22:13:04
mcr
aye 
22:13:05
bdmc
I don't see the motion.  I guess that I will suggest that Peter made the motion, and I will second it. 
22:13:13
Aye 
22:13:25
pnunn_2
No, Etienne moved the motion. 
22:13:45
Just before you called for it bmc 
22:13:50
bdmc
pnunn_2:  Sorry, he beat me to it. 
22:13:56
Etienne
xx.11:31 
22:14:14
FD
@Brian: As you may have noticed, the minutes have been written in real time for several months, thanks to the collaborative note-taking system. Also, the minutes are available on the day of the committee meeting. 
22:14:16
bdmc
Next, the September minutes.   Any questions or comments? 
22:14:24
Etienne
https://wiki.cacert.org/Brain/CAcertInc/Committee/MeetingAgendasAndMinutes/2021-09-02#Minutes 
22:15:31
pnunn_2
No comment or question 
22:15:37
bdmc
Nothing?  OK, may I have a motion for the September Minutes? 
22:15:58
Etienne
I move to accept the minutes from the board meeting from septmber 2nd 2021. 
22:16:09
bdmc
I will second. 
22:16:12
Etienne
aye 
22:16:13
bdmc
Aye 
22:16:30
pnunn_2
aye 
22:16:54
FD
yes 
22:17:12
mcr
aye! 
22:17:14
bdmc
FD: But if they are not in the next month's Agenda, we can't discuss them. 
22:17:25
OK, moving on. 
22:17:31
Etienne
We can handle this three topics together: Just that you are informed what happens in the Secretary's office and is ongoing. Some things take more time than exepted, but every week some stuff is done. Furthermore: preparing the AGM: https://wiki.cacert.org/AGM/Next#Administration 
22:17:49
bdmc
Item 2.1.1 -- Etienne? 
22:17:54
Etienne
Thats al from the Secretary's office. 
22:18:34
bdmc
Sorry, I don't understand. 
22:18:53
mcr
My appologies for not editing the Finance Team, "details here" part before the meeting. 
22:18:55
bdmc
According to the Agenda, you were going to meet with the barrister in early September. 
22:19:36
Etienne: Were you able to accomplish that yet? 
22:20:09
mcr
2.1.1, barrister is "CCA change"? 
22:20:25
bdmc
Part of 2.1.1. 
22:21:05
Actually, 2.1.2.  All parts of the changes to our paperwork. 
22:22:01
Etienne
We had a board meeting from another association. But he didn't show up as he was late due to some supplement work in court. Now he is abroad, but will be back on 12th of october. I am running behind him, believe me. 
22:22:36
bdmc
Etienne: I expected that you were on top of it, but depending on other people ( person ). 
22:22:51
Etienne
mcr: barrister is OFT changes. 
22:23:21
While waitiing I progressed with the dossier for tax exemption. 
22:24:01
bdmc
Etienne: Do I understand that at XX:17, you were talking about both 2.1.1 and 2.1.2? 
22:24:24
Etienne
yes, 2.1.1, 2.1.2, 2.1.3. 
22:24:45
bdmc
My Agenda does not have a 2.1.3.   ???? 
22:25:35
Etienne
Tax excemption: Secretary is preparing paperwork for authorithies of Republic of Geneva. (maybe you loaded the agenda before it was saved) 
22:26:13
bdmc
I loaded it from the link that you sent in the e-mail message, as I called the meeting to order. 
22:26:14
Etienne
Frédéric Grither gave me a hand. 
22:26:42
mcr
I see 2.1.3: Tax excemption: Secretary is preparing paperwork for authorithie... 
22:26:43
bdmc
That sounds like a useful thing.   It is good to keep the Tax people happy. 
22:27:14
I reloaded, and find several changes. 
22:27:29
Anyway, getting back to "the path." 
22:27:47
Item 2.2.1 -- Signer. 
22:27:57
egal -- can you report on this, please? 
22:29:24
bdmc
I guess that we only have Dirk's machine, not Dirk himself. 
22:29:47
Next, Item 2.2.2 -- NextCloud.   Any reports, here? 
22:29:54
FD
NextCloud works, anyone can ask Sascha to create an account for him. This makes it possible not only to access shared files and folders via the web, but also to synchronise them directly in the file tree of one's work station. 
22:29:54
The installation still needs to be completed with an Office document editing server, to allow us to work collaboratively on text documents and spreadsheets. 
22:29:54
Finally, a CRM/ERP, in the form of an independent application, remains to be evaluated before installation. 
22:29:54
https://lists.cacert.org/wws/arc/cacert-board/2021-10/msg00000.html 
22:31:00
bdmc
FD: I know that we have discussed this, but for the others, is the CRM to be part of NextCloud? 
22:32:01
FD
No, it won't be. Sascha wants the online document editor to be kept as simple as possible, Jan wants it to be kept non commercial. 
22:32:37
bdmc
I was asking about the CRM, not the document editor, but I presume that the answer is the same. 
22:33:00
FD
So, we dropped the OnlyOffice Workspace (document editor + integrated CRM module) commercial option. 
22:34:15
bdmc
Since JanDD is not here, as far as I know, we won't look at 2.2.3. 
22:34:43
Moving on to 2.3 -- Backgroud Checks -- any progress? 
22:34:56
pnunn: Have you been contacted on this matter? 
22:35:27
FD
There is one small issue to discuss about the infrastructure. 
22:35:41
pnunn_2
No, not heard anything so far dbmc 
22:36:13
bdmc
FD:  Certainly.  Let us move back to 2.2.3 
22:36:41
FD
Basically, we have about a hundred system administrators who wanted to help us, and are members of the discussion list of the same name. 
22:37:03
bdmc
And nothing for them to do? 
22:37:11
FD
But when you call them out and say: we need help with this. There is silence. 
22:37:22
bdmc
Ah.  Yes, that problem. 
22:37:41
FD
So the question is: how do we get them out of their slumber? 
22:38:06
bdmc
I know that recently, we have been asking for help on specific topics, not just "we need help."   Anybody else have ideas? 
22:38:36
pnunn_2
Would a direct contacting them individualy work perhaps? 
22:39:13
bdmc
We have thought of that, but we don't know enough about what their strengths are. 
22:39:26
FD
In general, it works better when you ask people individually, rather than on the discussion list 
22:39:29
bdmc
Perhaps we don't need that, I don't know. 
22:40:12
FD: You did get some response when you asked about CRM support. 
22:40:41
pnunn_2
I guess the contact could say we need to do x, are you qualified and available or some such. 
22:41:01
FD
In addition, Jan had a list of applications for each of which we are looking for an administrator (to update first, then maintain in the long term). The discussion lists and the wiki are the two examples that come to mind. 
22:41:40
bdmc
Yes, mail in general, but particularly the mailing lists, are definitely in need of upgrade and maintenance. 
22:41:46
FD
@Brian: no useful answer; please see https://lists.cacert.org/wws/arc/cacert-board/2021-10/msg00000.html and following 
22:42:43
bdmc
In Board Private, let us discuss and create a list of "critical" needs, and get ready to send some of that mail. 
22:43:38
I can write a message this evening and start the ball rolling. 
22:44:01
( as long as the mail system accepts my message! ) 
22:44:36
FD
OK. Thank you. 
22:44:36
bdmc
Next, Item 2.4 -- the AGM in six weeks or so. 
22:45:16
I know that I need to write some kind of report.  Do we have a current list of Team Leads, and do they know about their reports? 
22:46:14
mcr: I know that this is premature ( on the Agenda ), but how are you for the AGM? 
22:47:17
Etienne
The secretary is in contact with them and will recontact them starting in two days (as he has some days of holydays next week). At the moment, one team sent his report (Ales/Support) 
22:48:14
bdmc
Yes, the end date of that report is the end of June, 2021, isn't it? 
22:48:20
mcr
bdmc, I'll need to pick a program to do the accounts. I propose to buy QBO for a year.  If the CRM we pick can be used great, but I can't really wait any longer. I should have brought this up three weeks ago. 
22:48:41
Etienne
If mcr can present income/money spent and how much money we had on June 30th, that would be fine. 
22:49:10
bdmc
mcr: What is the cost -- not that we are going to say "no." 
22:49:31
mcr
250CDN. 
22:50:11
Etienne, I can certainly money spent, but income will vague as to whether it's recurring, one-time, etc. 
22:50:14
bdmc
OK, about 200 EUR.   You know the state of our finances, but I imagine that that won't be a problem. 
22:51:02
( just guessing -- I don't have my exchange rates in front of me ) 
22:52:18
bdmc
Do we want to create a motion directing the Treasurer to incur this expense, or just tell him to do his job? 
22:52:26
mcr
if we think we will pick a CRM, like NextERP, and get it installed by Xmas, then I'd rather pay someone $250 to do that work. 
22:52:30
FD
@Michael: In parallel, do you want to look at what ERCNext could do for you today or tomorrow? 
22:52:50
mcr
er, yeah, ErpNext. 
22:52:57
Not, NextErp. 
22:53:18
FD
Please see: https://lists.cacert.org/wws/arc/cacert-board-private/2021-10/msg00001.html 
22:53:24
mcr
I can improvise "income/money spent" for June 30 in a report. 
22:53:45
FD, the proof is in the using. 
22:53:47
bdmc
mcr: That would certainly be a step in the right direction. 
22:54:19
mcr: Perhaps combined with a Balance Sheet? 
22:54:26
mcr
Treasurer prefers a long-term solution, and recognizes that QBO isn't such a solution. 
22:54:40
Etienne
mcr, that is what we had in the last years, incl. balance sheet. 
22:54:41
mcr
A balance sheet would be "how much money we had" part :-) 
22:54:48
FD
Etienne on the audio channel is in favour of a simple cash in/out table for this year. 
22:54:58
mcr
define "table" 
22:55:06
"Donations XXX" 
22:55:10
"Expenses YYYY" 
22:55:10
? 
22:55:22
Do we distinguish donations from membership? 
22:55:35
FD
Yes exactly. Please be creative. 
22:56:20
mcr
okay. I'll get that part done.  I still need access to the CHF accounts, and the SecureNet ledger.  But I imagine CHF is zero. 
22:56:24
bdmc
FD: Were you answering about separating the donations from membership, or the text before? 
22:56:46
mcr
I think we're way off agenda, unless it jumped. 
22:56:59
FD
@Brian: Obviously, nothing escapes your lynx eye. 
22:57:01
bdmc
mcr: It would have to be, since that acccount was not opened until after the 1st of July, the beginning the the next Fiscal Year. 
22:57:10
mcr
bdmc, really. Okay. 
22:57:32
Secure-U is still a problem. 
22:57:41
bdmc
No, all of this discussion is in preparation for the AGM. 
22:58:00
Yes, it also spills over into Finance. 
22:58:58
* mcr . o O ( needs coffee ) 
22:59:17
Etienne
mcr, I will send you the information for CHF after the week end. 
22:59:22
bdmc
mcr: OK, not counting Secure-U, how to you feel about July 2020 - June 2021? 
22:59:50
I presume that you still need tools? 
22:59:53
mcr
good. I think that I have all the records I need. 
23:00:03
bdmc
Great. 
23:00:04
Etienne
SecureU is not we. Our money there is not in our balance sheet. 
23:00:11
mcr
bdmc: I have no tool at this point, so I'll be using libreoffice spreadsheet and/or gnumeric. 
23:00:26
Etienne, but there are expenses there, and there are donations in. 
23:00:44
bdmc
Then, moving the organisation forwards, we need tools and storage of records. 
23:00:44
* mcr not really happy with that arrangement. 
23:01:05
bdmc
mcr: A "trust" account.  B-) 
23:01:06
mcr
if ERPNext does not work out by Xmas, then we'll need to do something else. 
23:01:57
bdmc
OK.  I think that we are covered for the AGM.   Anybody else want to talk about that? 
23:02:39
FD
I think that we should consolidate in our accounts, perhaps as an "off-balance sheet" item, the sums that CACert has at its disposal at Secure-U. It's not as if these sums don't exist. 
23:04:01
bdmc
Etienne:  One other thing.  I haven't seen your message about reports, so I may be over-thinking it, but perhaps you could point out that this report is to cover the period from July 2020 to June 2021, so all of the information is already "in hand." 
23:04:43
pnunn_2
Perhaps.. a heads up that I won't be standing for committee next year I'm afraid.. things have got busy and gone in interesting directions. 
23:05:08
Etienne
That is certainly true in the medium term. But for that we would have to get corresponding data from secureU. This would mean that they would have to find a new treasurer, because until then the old one would only be doing the absolute minimum. 
23:05:56
bdmc
Etienne: Do I understand that things are changing at Secure-U? 
23:06:46
Etienne
They should, but don't at the moment. Lack of volunteers.... 
23:06:55
mcr
Secure-U has a distinct treasurer that isn't Dirk? 
23:07:01
bdmc
pnunn_2: "Old Chinese curse" ways, or good ways? 
23:07:10
mcr
brb. 
23:08:03
pnunn_2
both to some extent :) 
23:08:16
bdmc
OK, moving on to Item 2.5 -- Staffing -- Frederic did we cover this earlier? 
23:10:04
FD
I was writing the minutes. One moment please to allow me to answer you. 
23:10:53
In the short term, we have to welcome Peter and Gero as full time software engineers. 
23:11:46
In other words, they need to pass the background check as soon as possible. It was already planned to do it at the end of August for Gero. 
23:11:53
bdmc
Agreed.  ( Software Engineering, QA, QC, Software Acceptance ) 
23:12:46
I will keep reminding the Background Check department that this is outstanding. 
23:13:23
FD
This is the essential condition to finally lock up part of the backlog that we have in software and patches available, but not put into production, because of lack of validation under the conditions required by our Policies. 
23:13:35
bdmc
Haven't seen Michael back yet, so I will move on to Item 2.7 -- Software team. 
23:14:08
I have made the changes prompted by Ales, number 1502 ( and related numbers ). 
23:14:39
I got distracted working on creating a tool kit for developers and testers. 
23:15:54
bdmc
I don't know anything about 1482.  As far as 1444, I think that it may be considered obsolete, because of other work done in the source code. 
23:16:05
FD
As far as the support team is concerned, Mathias must be integrated in the same way. First he should pass his background check, then we should evaluate his ability to join the support team as a full time support engineer. He should be able to support Ales in this way. He clearly has a much broader range of skills than just sorting out trouble ticke 
23:16:05
ts. 
23:17:16
bdmc
Item 2.8 -- Organisation Assurance -- Do we have anything to report, here? 
23:17:47
FD
My last post was related to 2.5. Sorry, it takes time to write in English for a non-native speaker. 
23:18:06
bdmc
FD: Yes, I understood. 
23:18:59
Etienne
If Guy is not here, unfortunately, no. He accepted to take over this lead. 
23:19:07
bdmc
Thank you. 
23:19:29
mcr
back. 
23:19:38
bdmc
Item 2.9 -- Grants, etc.   Frederic, do you want to say anything more than in the Agenda? 
23:22:37
bdmc
Nothing heard.  Going back to Item 2.6 -- Finance.  Michael, do you have anything more? 
23:24:04
mcr
I really didn't. 
23:24:11
bdmc
Thank you. 
23:24:55
OK, we seem to have reached the end of the Agenda sooner than some times.  Do we want to address any of the "Questions?" 
23:25:19
FD
Regarding 2.5: First, we need to complete the tax exemption submission procedure, in order to complete the registration of CAcert with our potential institutional sponsor. Only then will we be able to submit a grant application early next year. 
23:25:19
Furthermore, we have (as usual, unfortunately) no news from RIPE NCC. 
23:25:58
bdmc
FD:  I'm confused.  What does this have to do with Staffing? 
23:27:29
FD
Sorry. I wanted to link that to point #9. 
23:27:47
Regarding #9: First, we need to complete the tax exemption submission procedure, in order to complete the registration of CAcert with our potential institutional sponsor. Only then will we be able to submit a grant application early next year. 
23:27:57
mcr
ah 
23:28:06
FD
Regarding #2.9: First, we need to complete the tax exemption submission procedure, in order to complete the registration of CAcert with our potential institutional sponsor. Only then will we be able to submit a grant application early next year. 
23:28:31
bdmc
Thank you. 
23:28:54
OK, folks.  We have three more meetings this year, and one of them is the AGM. 
23:29:06
mcr
good. 
23:29:13
Etienne
+1 
23:29:22
bdmc
Our next meeting is scheduled for the 4th of November.  All agreed? 
23:29:39
mcr
and then the AGM the next week. 
23:30:04
bdmc
Saturday a week and a bit later, yes. 
23:30:29
pnunn_2
Good stuff. 
23:30:43
FD
OK. 
23:30:49
On general issues, would it be possible to encourage more committee members to join our informal Wednesday audio-video meeting at least once a month. This is where we make progress and do more real work, than during the IRC meetings on the first Thursday alone. 
23:31:34
bdmc
If there is nothing else? 
23:32:02
Etienne
Please read our history at https://blog.cacert.org/ (as King Arthur was CAcert member) ;-) 
23:32:10
bdmc
B-) 
23:32:24
pnunn_2
Sounds interesting. 
23:32:32
bdmc
In that case, I will call this meeting complete. 
23:32:38
Have a good night, all. 
23:32:41
Etienne
And very nice pics from our collection ;-) 
23:32:54
pnunn_2
good day/night/evening all... stay well. 
23:33:06
Etienne
Thank you and good bye! 
23:33:07
bdmc
And to you! 
23:33:20
← pnunn_2 a quitté (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand-crafted IRC client) 
23:33:41
FD
of the meeting are writen hereThe minutes of the meeting are already drafted and available here: https://nextcloud.cacert.org/index.php/apps/files/?dir=/CAcert%20board/CAcert%20-%20Committee%20meet... 
23:34:39
The minutes of the meeting are already drafted and available here: https://nextcloud.cacert.org/index.php/apps/files/?dir=/CAcert%20board/CAcert%20-%20Committee%20meet...