→ Etienne est entré 
21:58:01
→ bdmc est entré 
21:58:18
Etienne
Good morning, my president! 
21:58:37
bdmc
Good night, my secretary! 
21:58:58
I won't be able to chair this meeting, so perhaps you or FD could do that. 
21:59:19
Etienne
That is bad. 
21:59:37
bdmc
I don't know about "bad."  Perhaps inconvenient. 
22:00:27
Etienne
Your English is better than mine's. 
22:00:55
Lives your family in the 50°C-part of Canada? 
22:01:07
bdmc
Possibly, but my French is very poor and my German is even less! 
22:01:24
Some members, yes, but most of them farther East. 
22:02:04
Etienne
We have only 32°C, but I prefer even less... 
22:02:19
→ pnunn est entré 
22:02:22
bdmc
It is 32 where I am now.  My sister is at 32 as well. 
22:02:46
pnunn
Morning all. 
22:03:00
bdmc
That's interesting.  Everywhere that I have listed is 32 ( one is 34 ). 
22:04:06
Etienne
Hello Peter, nice to meet you! 
22:04:07
bdmc
In London ( Ontario -- Canada ) it is almost cold.  It is only 25. 
22:04:48
pnunn:  Hi Peter.  We are talking about the cold front in Western North America. ( or something ) 
22:05:16
How is it for you? 
22:05:18
Etienne
We are 4 (Frédéric is this moment conecting) to start 
22:05:47
pnunn
Its freezing and dark. Very mild winter so far, but clear nights so lots of frosts at this time of morning. 
22:05:54
Currently 2 I think. 
22:06:10
bdmc
I envy you, right now.  32 outside. 
22:06:32
→ FD est entré 
22:06:37
Etienne
Agenda https://wiki.cacert.org/Brain/CAcertInc/Committee/MeetingAgendasAndMinutes/2021-07-01#preview 
22:06:39
pnunn
Yeh that's too hot for me too. I've seen the reports that Canada is getting a belting. Any fires around? 
22:06:42
FD
Hi dear fellows! 
22:06:50
Etienne
Audio channel https://conference.germanywestcentral.cloudapp.azure.com/b/ber-n8r-r5b-a1v 
22:07:09
FD
The shared minutes notepad can be found here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KKJX5j1Jf74Nc1g_830d_i52AEXRSseE8vtzv-w_q-4/edit?usp=sharing 
22:07:46
Good morning Peter! Good afternoon Brian! 
22:07:53
bdmc
pnunn: Not here, but I am on the other side of the continent. 
22:08:20
pnunn
That's good to hear atleast Brian.  Morning FD. 
22:08:21
bdmc
FD: When I arrived, I told Etienne that I couldn't chair this meeting, and suggested that you could. 
22:08:32
Peter might, as well. 
22:08:48
pnunn
I did one recently... FD, you up for it? 
22:09:21
Etienne
Let's start, I take the chair and open this meeting: Welcome! 
22:09:34
FD
Hi Etienne! 
22:09:48
Etienne
Who is making minutes? 
22:10:01
FD, have you a link? 
22:10:26
The shared minutes notepad can be found here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KKJX5j1Jf74Nc1g_830d_i52AEXRSseE8vtzv-w_q-4/edit?usp=sharing  (I was already sleeping) 
22:10:28
FD
I am, and I invite everyelse to participate to the drafting of the minutes at : https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KKJX5j1Jf74Nc1g_830d_i52AEXRSseE8vtzv-w_q-4/edit?usp=sharing 
22:11:13
Etienne
Is there a time limit? Let's do it as soon as possible. 
22:11:27
pnunn
Yes please. 
22:11:32
Etienne
Chair asks whether cacert-board-private or cacert-board maillist includes any items that need to be disclosed to Members. 
22:12:16
FD
No, we do not see anything special, expect the positive answers from newcomers wanting to help Jan at the Infrastructure team. 
22:12:20
Etienne
I saw some acitvity at software, but nothing at the board mailing lists. 
22:12:59
I did'nt see any minutes, only a list of the people present. 
22:13:13
Business 
22:13:21
Most pressing subjects 
22:14:46
Etienne
CCA change. information of community: The letter is ready (Thank you to bdmc); I am waiting to submit it to Dirk, until the two more pressing subjects are don: access for Ales and signer. 
22:15:27
register statutes changes at OFT (started after AGM): details with OFT OK, form prepared, waiting for legal confirmation. (secretary / to skip, still pending, legal confirmation takes more time than expected) 
22:16:33
pnunn
Have they come back with anything @Etienne or is it just taking time? 
22:17:26
bdmc
He told us on Wednesday morning, that he needed to connect with a Swiss laywer ( barrister ) to notarise it, before sending paperwork to Oz. 
22:17:35
Etienne
Changes at http://www.cacert.org/index.php?id=3 is not updated yet. egal was waiting a second verification. Bdmc and FD said, that to change the fingerprint only, one verification should be suffiscent. 
22:17:58
pnunn, yes, please 
22:18:11
bdmc
We should be able to produce a second verification, as well. 
22:18:33
Do we just need to say that the value is correct? 
22:18:52
Etienne
I think so, yes @bdmc 
22:19:20
bdmc
To do so, I presume that we need to check that page out of the source code, correct? 
22:19:31
FD
Dirk is waiting for the change to our web homepage to be reviewed by a second Software Enginneer. Brian and I suggested to him at a Wednesday meeting that for such a simple, purely textual change, he would be willing to update the web page in the absence of a second review. He agreed, but did not do it. 
22:19:34
bdmc
And find the proper certificate. 
22:20:25
I will try to do so.  ( Need to go back in the mailing lists to find everything. ) 
22:20:59
Etienne
Answer at pnunn: to There is a form to have Cacert Inc removed from the register. I have filled it out and now need a lawyer's signature to confirm that I am authorised to fill it out. This is in the process of being done (I have to meet him privately so it won't cost $350). 
22:21:29
Thank you Brian. 
22:21:38
pnunn
Good stuff @Etienne. 
22:22:07
Etienne
Background Check 
22:22:41
Board suggests that more candidates be processed, whether they are assigned tasks at the present or not. 
22:23:21
Would you like to discuss this proposition here or audio on bbb? 
22:23:54
pnunn
audio is not an option for me in a sleeping house sorry. 
22:24:03
bdmc
I would suggest that, if people agree, we formulate a motion, saying this. 
22:24:16
and direct it at whoever needs to know it. 
22:25:10
Etienne
Do not worry, Peter, on audio are sometimes just some comments to the written text. Everyone in the audio channel is also reading IRC. 
22:26:45
bdmc
And, perhaps, not just invite people to apply, but actually ask specific people to apply. 
22:27:59
Etienne
Maybe this way: I motion that board invite people to apply, ask specific people and candidates be processed, whether they are assigned tasks at the present or not. 
22:28:36
bdmc
I see that that is in Etienne's motion.  ( I move that ) 
22:29:20
I think that it is open to everybody who wants to apply. 
22:29:38
Whether or not they pass, is a different question. 
22:29:39
Etienne
Any other comments? Suggestions? 
22:29:58
bdmc
NO, not really. 
22:30:06
pnunn
second and aye 
22:30:11
bdmc
Don't vote until the motion is complete. 
22:30:31
pnunn
Sorry, thought it was.. :) Now reading back. 
22:30:31
bdmc
While we are still discussing wording, we are not voting. 
22:31:23
True. 
22:31:34
And that is part of the "invite people to apply." 
22:32:01
Perhaps "invite any member of the Community -- or something ) 
22:32:24
What do you think? 
22:33:00
That is why I am suggesting alternatives. 
22:33:39
FD: I think that we are going in similar directions. 
22:34:12
I want to see the final version before the vote. 
22:34:23
Etienne
I move that board invite any member of the Community to apply, ask specific people and candidates be processed, whether they are assigned tasks at the present or not. 
22:34:37
bdmc
Ummmm. 
22:34:51
Yes 
22:35:16
Yes, I was workign on that, too. 
22:35:46
Etienne
So?: I move that board invite any member of the Community to apply to the background check and will ask specific people and candidates be processed, whether they are assigned tasks at the present or not. 
22:35:52
bdmc
"and the Board will request that specific people" 
22:35:54
FD
Something like "board invite any member of the Community to apply to the Background Checked by the Community, and will also ask specific people and candidates be processed, whether they are assigned tasks at the present or not. " 
22:36:29
bdmc
There is only one motion.  We are still discussing wording of that motion. 
22:36:40
B-)   I know. 
22:37:17
May we see the final wording again> 
22:37:37
Etienne
New wording: I move that board invite any member of the Community to apply to the background check and the committee will request that specific people and candidates be processed, whether they are assigned tasks at the present or not. 
22:38:06
bdmc
I think that that is basically what we have been saying.  Agree? 
22:38:33
Etienne
I move that board invite any member of the Community to apply to the background check and the committee will request that specific people and candidates be processed, whether they are assigned tasks at the present or not. 
22:38:38
bdmc
pnunn: You have been quiet. 
22:38:54
Second 
22:38:57
Etienne
aye 
22:38:59
bdmc
Aye. 
22:39:02
pnunn
aye 
22:39:14
bdmc
FD: You want another change? 
22:39:34
FD
I would use the wording "committee" in all places of the motion, not "board" once and "comittee" later. 
22:39:45
bdmc
I saw that, too, but didn't argue. 
22:40:37
So, do we cancel our votes and try again? 
22:40:43
I'm willing/ 
22:41:06
Certainly.   Cancel that vote and amend the motion. 
22:42:06
bdmc
Hmmm.  Community Background Check  isn't a problem for me.  Peter? 
22:43:12
bdmc
Multiple members of the Community. 
22:43:15
Etienne
Please read to a final editorial check:: I move that committee invite any member of the community to apply to the new community background check and the committee will request that specific people and candidates be processed, whether they are assigned tasks at the present or not. 
22:43:27
bdmc
"the committee" 
22:44:01
be processed is all right  ( perhaps a bit formal ) 
22:44:19
pnunn
it works. 
22:44:27
Etienne
I move that the committee invite any member of the community to apply to the new community background check and the committee will request that specific people and candidates be processed, whether they are assigned tasks at the present or not. 
22:44:30
FD
I second the motion and vote aye 
22:44:34
Etienne
aye 
22:44:37
pnunn
aye 
22:44:40
bdmc
aye 
22:44:47
Etienne
Passed, thank you! 
22:45:15
bdmc
What about the announcement about the new process? 
22:45:46
No. 
22:46:02
"that the committee invite"   Is proper English 
22:46:34
pnunn: Peter, confirm, or would you rather the plural? 
22:46:45
pnunn
No, that's fine. 
22:47:36
bdmc
We said that the announcement needed to be done in a previous meeting. 
22:48:01
Etienne
Who wants to prepare it? 
22:48:10
bdmc
Well, not done in a previous meeting, but we said in a prevous meeting that it needed to be done. 
22:48:59
Etienne
I will put in on my list. 
22:49:16
bdmc
pnunn: Do you have an hour or so when you might be able to cobble something together about this new process? 
22:50:00
Most of the information should be in the Board ( Private ) Mailing List. 
22:50:02
pnunn
Well, I could, but I've not had any involvement in the new process so probably not the best one to do it. 
22:50:21
bdmc
None of us have.  We have just been hearing about it from Ted. 
22:51:04
pnunn
I thought FD had been more involved? No? 
22:51:20
bdmc
Peter brings up a good point.  Do we want Ted to do the write-up for publication, or use his words and write it ourselves? 
22:51:20
Etienne
https://wiki.cacert.org/NewBackgroundCheck (EN, DE, FR, CZ) 
22:51:44
bdmc
OK.  So perhaps just a news article pointing at that page. 
22:51:57
Etienne
With this information, we can write it, I suppose. 
22:52:12
I will do it. 
22:52:35
pnunn
OK, lots of good info there. 
22:52:47
Etienne
Anything else about background checks? 
22:52:49
bdmc
pnunn: I know that FD has been talking about it ( not answering you, though ), but he has not actually participated in the process. 
22:53:16
pnunn
OK, my mistake. 
22:54:16
Etienne
Let's move to November 2021.... AGM! 
22:54:24
bdmc
I really didn't understand the AGM dates that you quoted.  It is 2021, right, not 2011? 
22:54:57
Etienne
First question: Friday or Saturday (for Peter Sat or Sun morning)? 
22:55:48
pnunn
Either for me, makes not much difference. I thought we normally did it Saturday though so anyone working could make it. 
22:55:52
bdmc
FD: Peter didn't hear any of that. 
22:56:03
Etienne
The dates on the agenda are e.g. "Fri/Sat 12./13.11." = Friday 12.11.2021/Saturday 13.11.2021 (11=november) 
22:56:42
The suggested time is 20:00 GMT = Geneva 21 h 00 = Sydney 07 h 00 DST = Greenwich (London) 20 h 00 = New York 15 h 00 
22:56:43
bdmc
Etienne: From this far away, I have no preferences. 
22:57:24
pnunn
likewise. 
22:57:39
Etienne
Let's fix a day: Saturday 13/20/27 November 2021 (that is sunday morning in Australia) 
22:57:52
pnunn
Yep. 
22:57:57
Sounds fine. 
22:58:27
FD
The 13rd of November would have my voice. 
22:59:23
Etienne
I move to fix Saturday, 13th november 2021, 20:00 GMT for the AGM. 
22:59:25
FD
I second the motion and vote aye 
22:59:38
pnunn
aye 
22:59:39
Etienne
aye 
22:59:39
bdmc
aye 
22:59:48
Etienne
Thank you! 
23:01:20
Etienne
The secretary will start the preparations. Do you agree with the villa used by Mr Biden and Mr Putin for the AGM? It belongs to the  municipal library of Geneva. I cold ask or do you prefer irc? 
23:01:55
pnunn
Sadly the current travel restrictions would make the villa difficult. 
23:01:55
FD
Staffing of the Support team: 
23:01:59
bdmc
Sounds good to me.  We should be able to travel by then. 
23:02:04
FD
In May, the comittee stated: “Dirk is going to create the relevant new accounts in OTRS for new comers and to extend access rights to Aleš Kastner (his nomination was accepted as a Support Engineer) in OTRS; Dirk committed to do so no later than Sunday the 9th of May, 2021.” 
23:02:21
Aleš's new recruits have been blocked since last December because they have not received open accounts on OTRS. Aleš has been blocked since he was appointed Enginneer Support, due to the lack of access to our database. In both cases, we are waiting for Dirk. 
23:02:22
bdmc
pnunn:  No?  Things are still stuck down there? 
23:02:53
pnunn
Very much so... very low numbers but we are isolated on the island for a long time yet I think. 
23:04:00
bdmc
Vaccination rates have slowed drastically in the past month or so.  When the CDC came out and say "you don't need to wear masks any more," that seems to have really stalled things. 
23:04:10
"say = said" 
23:04:41
Etienne
Here, the restrictions are now falling, people are flying to Russia for the European Championship and to the south for their holidays. Everyone is expecting the Delta variant from August, so they are quickly sinning beforehand so that it comes faster and stronger :-( 
23:04:41
Here, the restrictions are now falling, people are flying to Russia for the European Championship and to the south for their holidays. Everyone is expecting the Delta variant from August, so they are quickly sinning beforehand so that it comes faster and stronger :-( 
23:04:50
bdmc
They are holding lotteries in several states to try to persuade people to get vaccinated. 
23:05:21
B-) 
23:05:23
pnunn
The stupid government here keeps changing their minds on who can get what vaccine. The messaging has been terrible. 
23:05:29
Etienne
We turn back to staffing the teams. 
23:05:46
pnunn
I assume Dirk is the only one who can grant the access? 
23:05:51
Etienne
In May, the comittee stated: “Dirk is going to create the relevant new accounts in OTRS for new comers and to extend access rights to Aleš Kastner (his nomination was accepted as a Support Engineer) in OTRS; Dirk committed to do so no later than Sunday the 9th of May, 2021.”  
23:05:51
23:02:21 
23:05:51
Aleš's new recruits have been blocked since last December because they have not received open accounts on OTRS. Aleš has been blocked since he was appointed Enginneer Support, due to the lack of access to our database. In both cases, we are waiting for Dirk. 
23:06:35
pnunn: yes, that is true. 
23:06:52
pnunn
So I guess we ask again? No much other choice. 
23:07:04
bdmc
pnunn:  He is on multiple critical paths, as the blocker. 
23:07:36
pnunn
Right.. 
23:08:24
bdmc
Plus he has is own employment in the way. 
23:08:34
( grrrr "is = his" ) 
23:09:48
FD
Staffing the Infrastructure Team: 
23:09:49
pnunn
So can someone in his time zone perhaps make contact and ask if he has time? 
23:10:02
I'm not sure what TZ that is. 
23:10:25
FD
Etienne is going to call Dirk and talk to him in German 
23:10:26
bdmc
Same one as both of the others. 
23:10:54
Etienne
Peter, I am doing that. We had mails, chats and a phone call in the last weeks. 
23:11:01
FD
Staffing the Infrastructure Team: 
23:11:03
Brian launched a call to the system administrators registered on our discussion list (about a hundred), in order to invite them to make themselves known individually and take each the responsibility of the deployment and then the maintenance of an application, on infra03. 
23:11:03
He received half a dozen replies; Jan in turn replied individually to these people. Here is his report: 
23:11:09
Etienne
I am continuing. 
23:11:13
FD
"Progress of Sascha is blocked because of missing network access to containers on infra03, we need a firewall change to route an IPv6 subnet to the container bridge network there and I had no time to discuss this with Dirk yet and had no onboarding to do it myself yet. 
23:11:22
We have no spare IPv4 public address currently and need to re-route traffic for existing containers to make a few available. I prepared parts of the change on infra02 but we need a DNS change and a few more changes on infra02 to fix this. 
23:11:22
Aleš has access to the test system 😊 
23:11:31
Vig did not respond to my last mail (on 2021-06-15) so he is stuck at step 3 ("Acknowledge") in my process diagram (he volunteered for IRC, and general DevOps assistance) 
23:11:31
Abdallah did not respond to my mail (on 2021-06-12) so the same for him 
23:11:31
Hendrik seems to be pissed of because Brian and I misspellt his name. He did not react to my apologies on 2021-06-23 and told us he is no longer motivated. 
23:11:38
Waclaw is stuck because he cannot create a certificate (due to the signer outage), our last conversation was on 2021-06-10, so he is stuck at step 5 ("send credentials") in my process diagram (he volunteered to look after the board ERP system). 
23:11:38
... so we have two volunteers stuck and two unresponsive" 
23:11:45
EOF 
23:11:51
bdmc
Etienne:  We have to stress that we are not only having trouble within CAcert, with all of these staffing issues, but that the signer is critical. 
23:12:40
pnunn
Wow, thanks FD. 
23:13:16
Etienne
bdmc: that is why I wait with the mail and talk to Dirk at the moment only about signer and Ales. But this done one day, next things follows. 
23:13:21
bdmc
FD: Yes, that is what I said.  That we have trouble within and outside of CAcert. 
23:13:39
FD
Staffing the Software Development Team: 
23:13:47
Brian invited a few individual programmers that he and I had specifically targeted for their PHP abilities. Two of them responded positively, Tim and Saikumar, and at least one of them produced some code. At the request of Brian, Bernhard and Dirk, he is working primarily on an application to facilitate the degeneration of personal certificates fro 
23:13:47
m the browser. 
23:14:07
Etienne
If you read the blog, I try to write as positive as possible. 
23:14:11
FD
Brian also extended a more general invitation to already known members to join our Software Developpement discussion list, but did not receive a response then. 
23:14:20
In general, we have a great need to effectively manage the motivation of people, to make them deliver a tangible result (work), even though we are an association of volunteers. 
23:14:42
bdmc
FD: That's interesting.  I didn't know about Hendrik's problem. 
23:18:49
bdmc
OK 
23:19:33
Peter stepped away to deal with a server briefly. 
23:20:55
bdmc
For those who haven't heard, I was talking to Gero T. recently and he has volunteered to head up the QA team for Software Development. 
23:23:29
FD
Regarding the Finance Team: 
23:23:39
Michael worked hard to gain access to the old historical ERP, Gero administers it and wanted to help him, but the sign-in malfunction prevents him from connecting to it. 
23:23:39
The finance team's priority should be to get access to all bank accounts and deploy their own ERP. 
23:23:39
Etienne
Thank you Brian (for asking) and Gero as well (for doing it). 
23:25:05
pnunn
The dead hardware is causing real issues. 
23:25:17
bdmc
Too true. 
23:26:22
bdmc
And Dirk thought that he was getting ahead of it, but having a couple of new hard drives, a replacement machine, etc. 
23:26:44
pnunn
yes. 
23:26:52
bdmc
(  grrrr, again.   "but having" = "by having" ) 
23:28:33
Etienne
Old hardware is one thing, but if almost all key positions are occupied by the same person, it can be just as much of a cluster risk. 
23:28:39
bdmc
I wonder whether it might be worthwhile consulting with Dirk regarding his plan of attack concerning all of the different systems in failure. 
23:28:56
"Second set of eyes." 
23:29:26
FD
Can the date of 13 July that you mentioned Etienne, for the third intervention on the signer, be taken as firm? 
23:29:54
Etienne
Following an e-mail I got, crit & admin traval to ede on Tue 13 july. It seems to be firm, if the signer works well until then. 
23:30:20
bdmc
The signer is NOT working at all. 
23:30:26
Etienne
(tomorrow will not happen, as the signer was no ready yesterday) 
23:31:02
Yesterdays news: Our volunteers have found out why the signer is currently not running, or why the signer did not start cleanly on the backup disk. Based on these findings, we are a big step further in the recovery process. 
23:31:16
bdmc
???? 
23:31:29
Etienne
Will be published tomorrow (latest news): Further progress with the signer: Not only PGP, but also certificate issuing now works on the replica. The CRLs, however, do not yet. 
23:31:56
pnunn
Ahh.. that's new news Good stuff. 
23:31:58
bdmc
But that is the "duplicate" machine, not the production one, correct? 
23:34:11
bdmc
Etienne: ??? 
23:34:34
Etienne
Dirk rebuilds the signer. And he has found the error, why the second one did not work. Then one should work and one should be reserve 
23:34:46
bdmc
OK 
23:35:02
That will make a lot of people very happy. 
23:35:10
This is to be done on the 13th? 
23:35:36
Etienne
For security reasons, only two vetted and trusted volunteers from Critical and Admin are allowed into the data centre at any one time. This is the well-known four-eyes principle. Since we no longer have people from the Netherlands in this area, our volunteers each have to travel from Germany. Thanks to generous employers, this is also possible during the week. As things stand, we expect that on Tuesday 13 July, two of our volunteers will be released by their respective supervisors so that they can go to the data centre. We sincerely regret the waiting time this will cause. 
23:35:48
bdmc
FD: ???? 
23:35:59
I don't know anything about that. 
23:37:50
Etienne
Brian: That was a mail in german segments I got from Dirk, two days ago, translated, added some backgrounds and worded in a positive manner..... then put it on the blog, slice per slice every two days (the last paragraph is for sunday). 
23:38:27
pnunn
OK, sounds like its the 13th then. 
23:38:48
Etienne
segments = sentence fragments 
23:39:45
Would you like to discuss any other point? - or should we move to question time? 
23:40:06
pnunn
I have about 15 minutes left before I need to get ready for another meeting. 
23:40:36
Etienne
Next: Question time: 
23:40:56
bdmc
Is there anybody other than us four, here? 
23:41:18
Etienne
Some shadows and ghosts and readers. 
23:41:30
bdmc
That's what I thought. 
23:41:36
Etienne
Next: next meeting: 
23:41:59
5. August (start AGM!!), -- save also the date for: 2. Sept, 30. Sept or 7. Okt, 30. Okt or 7. Nov 
23:42:46
Thank you FD for writing the minutes, the secretary will put them on the wiki. 
23:43:00
Thank you for joining the meeting. 
23:43:32
pnunn
Good stuff.. Have a good evening everyone, Brian I hope you can stay cool. 
23:44:05
bdmc
pnunn: Indoors working, yes.  I try and stay there.  B-) 
23:44:07
Etienne
Good bye, the meeting is closed. 
23:44:14
bdmc
Good night, all. 
23:44:29
pnunn
Stay well everyone. Tallk soon. 
23:44:34
FD
Have a nice evening and an nice day, Brian and Peter! 
23:44:52
Etienne
Have a good day, Peter 
23:44:59
Have a nice evening Brian 
23:45:05
Good night Frédéric 
23:45:51
← bdmc a quitté (Quit: leaving)