Committee meeting - 2021-03-04 - IRC log [22:03:26]   egal: Yes, I kicked myself for calculating wrongly. [22:03:47]   Audio channel in parallel to the official meeting on IRC (here): https://conference.germanywestcentral.cloudapp.azure.com/b/ber-n8r-r5b-a1v [22:04:01]   Good afternoon, evening, morning! [22:04:07]   Agenda: https://wiki.cacert.org/Brain/CAcertInc/Committee/MeetingAgendasAndMinutes/2021-05-06 [22:04:29]   It appears that most of us are here, now.  I think that I will call things to order at XX:05 [22:04:47]   temporary livepad for the minute keeper https://kabendzie.ellis.siteparc.fr/s/KXEwypoGQmnsiMt [22:04:53]   being here, too ... [22:05:29]   OK.  Aside from messing things up an hour ago, let me NOW call this meeting to order. [22:05:30]   unfortunately my hosting provider is just doing maintenance in the datacenter ... so i can't use my "normal machine" [22:06:06]   Etienne: I gather that you will take care of recording the minutes? [22:07:27]   Since it is now 22:00 for many of us, I will ask that we try to limit this meeting to as much less than two hours as possible, while still convering what needs to be done. [22:07:58]   Are there any messsages in Board Public or Board Private that need to be discussed? [22:08:01]   "Will" is an exaggeration, but I have paper and pencil next to me. [22:08:50]   No, we don't, Brian. [22:09:05]   Thank you. [22:09:07]   Alex B (PR Officer) sends his apologies for very personal reasons. [22:09:24]   Peter N as well for professional reasons. [22:09:34]   I see that the link in the Agenda, intended to point to last month's minutes, doesn't seem to work. [22:10:15]   Should that be corrected, or do we wait until next month? [22:10:57]   We are going to fix it on the fly. [22:10:58]   https://wiki.cacert.org/Brain/CAcertInc/Committee/MeetingAgendasAndMinutes/2021-05-06#Minutes [22:11:32]   sorry, https://wiki.cacert.org/Brain/CAcertInc/Committee/MeetingAgendasAndMinutes/2021-04-09#Minutes [22:12:01]   "That page does not exist yet." [22:12:36]   That was NSW's date; that works: https://wiki.cacert.org/Brain/CAcertInc/Committee/MeetingAgendasAndMinutes/2021-04-08#Minutes [22:13:15]   OK.  Please correct that in today's Agenda. [22:13:38]   May I have a motion to approve the minutes for last month's meeting? [22:13:55]   Please, I would second it. [22:14:07]   can anyone move a motion, or must it be a board member? [22:14:21]   or second it. [22:14:29]   I move to accept the minutes of 8th April 2021. [22:14:37]   I second. [22:14:39]   egal (egal@87.122.145.221) joined the channel. [22:14:42]   aye [22:15:04]   mcr is Michael Richardson. [22:15:35]   mcr: Also a pecularity of our procedures, is that a motion or second does not imply an Aye vote, so that has to be done separately.  B-) [22:15:37]   understood! [22:15:51]   All in favour? [22:16:09]   (Roberts Rule of Order would be very upset about seconders who do not vote Aye...) [22:16:14]   B-) [22:16:31]   I vote yes, too! [22:16:31]   I see one vote so far. [22:16:33]   so, if I didn't second, then someone else should have. [22:16:34]   bdmc? [22:16:37]   FD? [22:17:00]   I was not in attendence, so am Abstaining. [22:17:12]   Thank you. [22:17:51]   Should we consider that the minutes are accepted by two yes and one abstain? [22:18:12]   I think so [22:18:22]   Very good [22:18:27]   Perhaps some late votes over night. [22:18:34]   Moving on. [22:19:30]   mcr and anybody else new: Looking ahead in the agenda.  Bernhard and Ted are the same person. [22:19:43]   Item 2.1.1 -- CCA change. [22:19:49]   Who would like to report on this? [22:20:10]   egal (egal@87.122.145.221) left IRC. (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) [22:20:12]   Is any action needed at this time? [22:20:15]   egal (egal@45.77.40.159) joined the channel. [22:21:11]   details with OFT OK, form prepared, waiting for legal confirmation. For Legal confirmation, I startet the procedure. I takes time :-( [22:21:29]   i'm still waiting for a mail to our members to be sent regarding the relocation to switzerland [22:21:30]   Understood [22:21:59]   egal: I agree.  Etienne, have you prepared a draft, or do you want me to do so? [22:22:06]   ... or are we still in NSW until we get the legal confirmation? [22:22:16]   probably the latter [22:22:38]   There is a draft. Question is: should we add a paragraph about resigned class3? [22:22:51]   That is a separate item. [22:22:53]   (draft for the mail) [22:23:07]   I don't think that the two should be in the same message. [22:23:29]   nope ... we should publish the new class-3 as soon as possible ... as our members have to exchange it on their servers ... [22:23:37]   ... and they only have two weeks left ... ;-( [22:23:55]   egal: Would you like to prepare that message, and we can send it as soon as possible? [22:24:03]   (assuming, that nobody had certificate issues on our infrastructure-servers) [22:24:23]   nope ... currenty too busy for work ... ;-/ [22:24:26]   Relocation mail must go to all 300K. Resign class3 must go to whom? Are the mailing lists enough? and Blog, Twitter? I don't like to send 300K mails twice within days. [22:24:26]   Alternatively, you, as Team Lead of Critical Team, could send it from yourself. [22:24:49]   class-3 to blog/pr/... [22:24:58]   I would think that the smaller distribution, as Dirk just said [22:25:05]   ... but not to every member ... [22:25:27]   For one thing, not all 300K are using those certificates. [22:25:31]   OK, so one independend of the other. What is the latest day for class3 egal? [22:25:44]   Yesterday?   B-) [22:25:46]   may 20 [22:25:55]   (as far as i remember) [22:26:19]   egal: What do you want to go in the message? [22:26:37]   I see this as a "normal" maintenance announcement. [22:26:41]   OK. If you are to busy for the wording, I can do it inn the second half of the week (13/14). If you approve, we can distribute it about 16/17.5. [22:27:06]   we can silently publish the new class-3 root ... but ... somebody should write a nice blogpost for it ... [22:27:12]   maybe, on the minutes page, should we remove the 2021-03-04 IRC log from that page? [22:27:22]   I was hoping for the next day or two ( before Monday ) so that it has time to distribution. [22:27:27]   because that's what is really confusing. [22:27:36]   ( to dist -- for dist... ) [22:27:40]   a technically teaser is already in the blog ... as a line or two in my BIT-report [22:29:16]   egal: You can do the publish of Class 3 from where you are, correct? [22:29:55]   mcr: Good point.  I'll come back there in a bit. [22:30:42]   yep ... only the creation of the new root required a visit in datacenter [22:31:09]   jandd already installed it on most infrastructure-servers ... [22:31:15]   I notice that we have actually moved on to Agenda Item 2.1.2 -- Class 3 Certificate, or am I wrong? [22:31:43]   egal, is the new cert allready available for download? [22:32:11]   not on www.cacert.org ... [22:32:59]   it sort of went fluidly from discussion whether class-3 should be included in CCA change notification [22:34:08]   Etienne: That was what I understood Dirk meaning by "publish." [22:34:57]   Wacslaw, are you on the IRC too? [22:35:03]   So, there are a couple of things that I see us needing to decide upon. [22:35:34]   Do we "publish" the certificate before or after we make the announcement? [22:35:37]   @mcr yes, that would be me [22:36:15]   could be coordinated ... as long as i have a day to do so ... ;-) [22:36:18]   bdmc, egal: yes that is the question: first the announcement or first the link to download it. [22:36:41]   (that's why i asked etienne one week ago after our weekly telco( [22:36:41]   I vote for "publish" as soon as Dirk is ready, announce when Etienne is ready. [22:36:41]   it must be downloadable when the announcement goes out, right? [22:36:48]   egal - let's coordinate (but not here) [22:37:06]   ;-) [22:37:08]   I'd say link first. Otherwise people see the email and bounce off [22:38:09]   of course Torinthiel [22:38:58]   I'm ready to move ahead, unless there are objections. [22:39:35]   Agenda Item 2.1.3 -- Our new "ABC" procedure [22:40:02]   Do we have a proper title for this or just "Replacement ABC Procedure?" [22:40:26]   New Background Check (NBC)? [22:40:40]   :) [22:40:54]   May I suggest backgtound check by community (BCC)? [22:41:32]   I don't think that we need to decide now, unless you all want to do so. [22:42:20]   FD's proposition is more transparent [22:42:51]   Are there some people waiting an ABC? Some ABC on the way? [22:43:00]   I don't see Ted here. [22:43:12]   Yes, I would like answers for those questions, too. [22:43:20]   OK, so let's Staff the teams [22:44:11]   You mean, jump ahead to Item 2.2.1? [22:44:16]   ;-) [22:44:24]   Dirk, anything from you at this moment? [22:44:53]   Brian, could we talk a iittle bit about the content of our communication on the new ABC? [22:45:17]   Certainly.  Etienne seemed to want to move ahead. [22:46:00]   I saw your comments today, and agree.  That was why I did not call my notes "final." [22:46:18]   Thank you. [22:46:44]   Should I try and put those notes here, or just leave it to Board Private? [22:47:22]   Also, I would like to be BCCed too, (1) because that being potentially usefull (2) to test the new procedure by myself. [22:48:35]   FD: Sorry, you confused me.  OK, folks, here are a few notes about publicising the new ABC Procedure. [22:49:03]   First, me: [22:49:10]   Over the past several years, CAcert has been having issues with [22:49:11]   acquiring and keeping volunteers, particularly in certain roles critical [22:49:11]   to the operation of the organisation. [22:49:11]   These roles have ranged from computer operations to Arbitration. [22:49:11]   Re-filling empty positions has been impeded by some of CAcerts rules. [22:49:13]   One of those rules has been the required procedure for approving [22:49:15]   candidates for roles. [22:49:18]   The Board of CAcert, Inc., in consultation with certain senior and [22:49:20]   long-serving members of the CAcert Community, has revised that [22:49:23]   procedure, in an attempt to streamline and adapt it to today's world. [22:49:25]   The first tests of these newly revised procedures have been performed, [22:49:28]   and some long-empty roles have been filled. [22:49:30]   Further use of the new procedure will take place over the next few [22:49:33]   months, filling other roles, and helping CAcert return to proper operation. [22:49:44]   Added notes from Frederic: [22:50:04]   I wondered if we would not have wanted to make more explicit that the legacy ABC cannot work anymore, to explain in short and clear terms that arbitration collapsed, giving [22:50:07]   +us no other chance for running further operations than to mint a workaround, and to describe with sobriety what kind of new background scrutiny process we achieved to [22:50:10]   +setup after having first consulted the community through mails to the policy list mailing-list. [22:50:13]   The rational here to do so is always and again lining up with what I understood from Philip???s point of view the common law applicable to CAcert. We are right to do as we [22:50:16]   +did, under to cumulative assumptions: [22:50:19]   - nobody disputes us and then win a case; [22:50:21]   - but also, we made public what we did and what our reasons have been to do like that. [22:50:59]   Anybody else want to comment?  This is intended to be published as a Blog Post, as well as perhaps a message to "Members," not the whole Community. [22:52:02]   i wouldn't post it via mail to our members ... a blogpost should be fine/enough .. [22:52:45]   mails to 300k+ members should be sent only if it's really important ... [22:53:06]   Dirk wants to say that communication about the new BCC over our mailing list is ok and good enough. [22:53:10]   No, I didn't mean the whole Community, just the members of the Members mailing list. [22:53:16]   posting to a maillist is okay ... (but let me read the exact  wording before ... ;-) ) [22:53:24]   We all agree on that. [22:54:05]   what item are we presently on? [22:54:11]   (other than good nite) [22:54:13]   If I put the final draft into Board Private, would that be suitable? [22:54:27]   Item 2.1.3, just finishing up. [22:56:28]   Of course Brian. [22:57:09]   OK.  Can we skip ahead to Item 2.2.5, since we have both proposed members of the Finance Team present? [22:57:25]   Should we move better to 2.2.1 ans ask Dirk if he was able to create accounts for new comers in OTRS? [22:58:47]   Presiden, I ask you for you making use of your empowerment here, to motivate Dirk to create these very needed accounts. :-) [22:59:12]   Thank Mister President. [22:59:20]   Item 2.2.1 -- mixed items. [22:59:31]   Dirk answered that it will be done until sunday. [22:59:36]   2.2.1 will be done until Sunday following egal bluebutton [22:59:58]   2.2.1 is multiple items.  What will be done? [22:59:59]   (sunday= 9. may 2021) [23:00:07]   all. [23:00:11]   Dirk said Sunday the 9th of May, 2021 [23:00:21]   two witnesses! [23:00:39]   All of the applicants to the Support team, and the OTRS list? [23:01:26]   Dirk has a list of the people to be added to Triage. We can give him the list once more, should he need it. [23:02:04]   Perhaps I am confused by the purpose of the Items under 2 -- Staffing the Teams. [23:02:22]   are there some candidats for: Applicants to the Infrastructure team [23:02:22]   Applicants to the Development team [23:02:22]   Applicant to the Critical team [23:02:25]   ? [23:03:02]   if not, bdmc can move to the finance team - there are some candidates in the waiting room! [23:03:11]   Perhaps we should have asked those Team Leads to be here to answer those questions. [23:03:28]   Item 2.2.5 -- Finance Team [23:03:36]   At the moment, we are focusing on the guys wanting to join the support team and start working on Triage. [23:05:50]   Emmanuel who was an applicant to the finance team, an a high profile candidate (entrepreneur), resigned, because of starting a new business. [23:06:13]   We are at the moment with Wacław and Michael. [23:06:28]   FD: I thought that you were talking about the Support Team. [23:07:08]   But you wrote that we jumped to 2.2.5, didn't you ? [23:07:38]   Sorry I go ahead with finance team staffing. [23:08:06]   OK.  In any case, everybody can see the names of our two new members -- although I will need to ask a question in a moment. [23:08:13]   Both Waclaw (PL) and Michael (CA) wants to join the finance team. Michael wants to apply as a treasurer, too. [23:08:42]   The question that I must ask is whether both are members of CAcert, Inc.? [23:09:07]   If not, we need to clear that up immediately. [23:09:40]   Yes, I am (Waclaw Schiller). Currently a 'plain' member, no assurer status. [23:10:39]   Etienne: can you confirm their membership? [23:10:55]   https://www.cacert.org/account.php?id=38 is this the right place? [23:12:04]   Receipt number: 6UG93421FT3781340We’ll send confirmation to: sales@sandelman.ottawa.on.ca [23:12:53]   mcr: That sounds correct.  I am just waiting for the "keeper of the books" to give us the final answer. [23:12:54]   bdmc don't ask me to connect to our outdatet database during the meeting [23:13:01]   B-) [23:13:35]   OK.  Let us presume that they are both qualified to hold Board-level positions, and continue. [23:14:07]   how much longer today?  I will need to wrangle supper for teenager soon, otherwise, I'll be eaten. [23:14:20]   I hereby nominate Michael and Waclaw to be the founding members of the CAcert Finance Team. ( or did it exist previously? ) [23:14:36]   mcr: You should be free shortly. [23:14:44]   ( 15 minutes? ) [23:15:27]   I second [23:15:56]   All in favour? [23:16:04]   aye [23:16:49]   yes, except that there has been already a Finance Team since 2019. [23:17:14]   I wasn't sure how formal that was.  Take out "founding." [23:17:31]   FD: was that your vote? [23:18:06]   Also, I would be interested to join the finance team too, as I would like to push on the future possible grant applications. [23:18:30]   Sorry, I should have asked for other nominations. [23:18:56]   Etienne: would you accept an amendment to my motion, to include Frederic? [23:18:59]   Please, there is no problem. Would you like to nominate me there too? [23:19:18]   we should always have three people holding all the credentials for stuff, (on a USB key, offline, sure).  President and/or Secretary should among those. [23:20:09]   FD: Remember that the Finance Team isn't necessarily the people going out to find money, as we two have done in the past, but the people managing the money. [23:20:47]   Do you still want to be in that group, or a different one looking for money? [23:21:20]   Gentlemen: https://eu-browse.startpage.com/av/anon-image?piurl=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic.mycity.travel%2Fmanage%2Fuploads%2F6%2F13%2F91961%2F1%2Fles-2-verres-jomini-dans-la-vigne-1_2000.JPG&sp=1620335917T91939c6816efb85bcad411816a23695dae0af6b9baf3c057e774eee7ec8f8d23 [23:22:35]   sat: Are you actually present, or just your ghost? [23:23:08]   can we mutate the CERN logo into the CACERT logo? [23:23:36]   FD: Please answer.  IN the Finance Team, or a different one? [23:23:49]   Basically, I feel concerned by money management as CAcert, in the line of the work we done already to fix the Paypal problem, to optimize our international wire transfers, currency exchanged, and so on. Hence my will to join the finance team, should you think it make sense. [23:24:22]   All right.  You just mentioned grants, which confused me. [23:24:26]   FD, good.  That totally make sense. That's the mechanicals of getting the money, not the politics of seeking the money. [23:24:50]   Michael and Waclaw, you have both met Frederic, would you accept him as another member of your team? [23:24:55]   YES> [23:25:35]   yes [23:25:56]   OK. The amended ( replacement ) motion:  I hereby nominate Michael, Waclaw and Frederic to be members of the Finance Team.  ( Let us re-start voting. ) [23:26:18]   Second? [23:27:04]   second [23:27:07]   and aye [23:27:08]   yes [23:27:09]   Aye [23:27:46]   OK.  Also, earlier, someone proposed Michael as sitting on the Board as Treasurer. [23:28:01]   do I hear a motion? [23:28:07]   I hereby nominate Michael Richardson as Treasurer of CAcert, Inc. [23:28:39]   second and aye [23:28:43]   please put my name in the wiki. [23:28:48]   aye [23:29:04]   That is one of the necessary steps, yes. [23:30:04]   OK, if there is nothing else for the Finance Team, and no questions for the Treasurer, we can let Michael save himself. [23:30:53]   okay, I'm gonna go now. [23:31:13]   yes [23:32:17]   May we nominate Michael member of the committee, too ? We have one vacant seat. [23:32:42]   He is already, as Treasurer. [23:33:10]   If it is obvious like that, it is fine with me. [23:33:45]   Treasurer is one of the specified Board seats. [23:34:01]   Like President, Secretary and Vice-President. [23:34:30]   I am writting it like that in the minutes draft (to be controlled by Etienne before official approval): "Motion to nominate Michael Richardson as the treasurer of CAcert and a member of its committee of directors." [23:35:18]   OK.  Does anybody have anything to say for Items 2.3.X? [23:35:42]   I do not. [23:36:50]   Nothing else heard. [23:36:56]   Item 2.4? [23:39:14]   I would like our Finance Team to work efficiently on the Linux Foundation. It looks like a goof vehicle to drain funds from crowd, and not only from major donors. [23:39:16]   FD:  Do you want to talk about Item 3.1? [23:40:27]   FD:  That sounds like a good thing.  Remember, however, that their first, and most important role, is to manage the existing funds and expenses, and prepare suitable records for the Board. [23:41:38]   3.1 Blockchain: I have no answer from Iang until now. [23:42:03]   I guess that everybody else is distracted by the audio channel, so I might as well finish the meeting. [23:42:28]   No, it is hard to type and write the minutes at the same time. [23:42:42]   FD: Understood. [23:42:50]   We should invite Iang to a talk with us. [23:42:57]   Following meetings: 3. June, 1. July, 5. August [23:43:00]   Agreed. [23:43:08]   Question time: ??? [23:43:33]   We should at least talk once to the person from Asia having got in touch with us many months ago, with another blockchain related project. [23:43:44]   Yes, certainly.  Does anybody here have questions for the Board or anyone present? [23:43:45]   nothing from my site to ask ...  [23:44:33]   So, there will be a post from bdmc about BCC, one from me about Class3, OTRS etc by egaluntil sunday, 300K@ soon by me and egal [23:44:39]   FD: I agree.  Do you want to do that, or somebody else? [23:45:06]   300K? [23:45:16]   This is another workshop for the Finance Team: to get in closer contact with those "higher profile donors", who proposed us to help CAcert in 2019, and who we barely never contacted back since. [23:45:29]   300K = official mail about relocation [23:45:42]   Good.  Just checking.  B-) [23:45:49]   we have around 300k community members [23:46:21]   For Iang, I can contact him, for the person from Asia, could you renew the contact with him ? Do you prefer me to do it ? [23:46:23]   dirkonserver: Yes, I knew the number, just wanted to make sure that we knew what message Etienne was talking about. [23:46:57]   FD: I don't think that I ever had any contact with him, but would be happy to write a message. [23:46:58]   FD, I will search, If I do not find him, I will tell you. [23:47:00]   "could you renew the contact with him ?"-> I was talking to Etienne. [23:47:18]   OK.  Thanks [23:47:41]   bdmc, if you have his mail just on your desk, can you forward it to me please? (only if...) [23:47:49]   !!! [23:48:04]   I have no idea who you are talking about. [23:48:33]   FD's men from Asia [23:48:51]   No, I knew what the subject was, I just don't know who he is. [23:49:19]   Well, if there is nothing more, shall we finish before midnight? [23:49:22]   We are going to find his mail back. [23:49:42]   OK Brian, Sad no having had you with us on BBB. [23:50:01]   OK Brian. I was sad not having had you with us on BBB. [23:50:08]   OK Brian. It was sad not having had you with us on BBB. [23:50:13]   Thank you.  [23:50:19]   IRC is not my friend. [23:50:35]   At least the minutes are written, [23:50:53]   I don't like splitting the meeting into multiple groups. [23:51:20]   You were the only one not being on BBB! :-) [23:51:44]   Remember JitSi!!! [23:52:15]   Thank you Brian for having chaired our meeting! [23:52:40]   Since there doesn't seem to be anything more, I hereby call this meeting finished.   See you all next month. [23:52:57]   ( finished, concluded, terminated, etc. ) [23:53:16]   Thank you and good bye bdmc! [23:53:24]   Good night, all! [23:53:26]   Thank you again! Bye! [23:53:55]   Goodnight