1 [19:54] --> GuyScharinger (Guy@87-91-169-220.abo.bbox.fr) hat #board-meeting betreten
   2 [19:55] <GuyScharinger> Bonsoir
   3 [20:41] --> Etienne (00000000@localhost) hat #board-meeting betreten
   4 [20:44] <Etienne> Good evening, egal
   5 [20:45] <Etienne> Bonsoir FredericG et GuyScharinger
   6 [20:45] <Etienne> Guten Abend sat
   7 [20:53] <GuyScharinger> bsoir Etienne
   8 [21:00] --> bdmc (bdmc@75.182.213.101) hat #board-meeting betreten
   9 [21:00] --> pnunn (user@119-17-137-218.771189.mel.static.aussiebb.net) hat #board-meeting betreten
  10 [21:00] <bdmc> 'Evening all.
  11 [21:00] <pnunn> Morning everyone
  12 [21:01] <Etienne> good morning/evenig!
  13 [21:01] <bdmc> Etienne: I joined JitSi, and can hear your conversation, and see a beautiful yellow screen.
  14 [21:02] <bdmc> Everybody here, yet?
  15 [21:03] <bdmc> I don't see Frederic ( the D ).
  16 [21:03] <Etienne> bdmc, pnunn, GuyScharinger, Etienne have answered
  17 [21:04] <Etienne> egal, FredericG, sat are connected
  18 [21:04] <bdmc> Do we want to wait for a few minutes, or get started?
  19 [21:07] <bdmc> Also, who wants to chair this meeting?
  20 [21:07] <Etienne> Alex Bahlo (PR officer) wrote to me. He apologise, he has to finish the gifts for tomorrow...
  21 [21:07] <bdmc> B-)
  22 [21:08] <Etienne> As fomer secretary, I asked Bret, if he accept election. He didn't. So we are looking for two more people.
  23 [21:09] <bdmc> I just tell the family that I should be ready by Ukrainian Christmas.
  24 [21:09] <Etienne> But to start, we need a president, a vice president and a secretary.
  25 [21:09] <bdmc> Etienne: Yes, I saw those messages.
  26 [21:09] <Etienne> For treasurer, l propose to see this after.
  27 [21:10] <Etienne> Are there candidates?
  28 [21:10] <bdmc> I agree.  It is an ongoing problem for this organisation.
  29 [21:10] <bdmc> I was hoping that Frederic D would be here.
  30 [21:11] <Etienne> bdmc, would you agree for another tour as president?
  31 [21:11] <pnunn> So was I, I want to propose he be elected to vice president :)
  32 [21:11] <bdmc> I keep feeling that I don't contribute as much as I should, but yes.
  33 [21:11] <Etienne> thank you, pnunn!
  34 [21:11] <bdmc> pnunn: That was my thought, too.
  35 [21:12] <pnunn> and you for secretary again Etienne, please!!
  36 [21:12] <Etienne> bdmc, now as elections are over, maybe you do not need to make as much politics as before ;-)
  37 [21:12] <Etienne> pnunn, as you ask so nice, I will
  38 [21:13] <Etienne> Treasurer (not a name, a general idea): Maybe we should change the focus, instead look for a treasurer, look for an accountant - not board member and a 7th board member. One of the board members, called "treasurer", will only be the contact to the accountant (the rest of the time, he can do other things).
  39 [21:14] <Etienne> What do you think?
  40 [21:14] <pnunn> There must be some accountant types somewhere in the organization we can rope in. Its way out of my skill set unfortunately (hate having to do mine).
  41 [21:15] <bdmc> Etienne and Peter: I completely agree.  I think that that is what we tried to do last year, but didn't quite make it work.
  42 [21:15] <bdmc> I thought that that was what we proposed to FredericG.
  43 [21:16] <bdmc> The "Treasurer" being a liason to one or more people in the Finance Committee.
  44 [21:16] <bdmc> ( who actually do the work )
  45 [21:16] <bdmc> ( Oh, incidentally, we started this meeting at XX:08 )
  46 [21:17] <GuyScharinger> what accounting obligation do we have?
  47 [21:17] <Etienne> Finance committee: FredericG (access paypal), Bret (Australia) - we could ask if he could get access to Westpac) & an accountant who accept for at least 5 years
  48 [21:18] <bdmc> GuyScharinger: Primarily server costs ( server farm hosting ) and bank fees, if I remember correctly.
  49 [21:20] <Etienne> Accountant: Simple accounting with annual financial statements. (Book receipts as donation/membership fee, expenses to data centre = 3 categories) Owe donations if possible, e.g. once a month.
  50 [21:21] <Etienne> oh yes, some fees as well.
  51 [21:21] <GuyScharinger> humm I think I mistranslated my thought
  52 [21:21] <GuyScharinger> in France the associations have some obligation in the accounting that i is not the same as the companies
  53 [21:21] <bdmc> Yes, Etienne is much more complete than I was.  I only described expenses.
  54 [21:23] <bdmc> GuyScharinger:  I am not directly connected, but, as I remember, we produce various reports for the AGM, but the financial report is just a simple balance sheet and P & L.
  55 [21:23] <Etienne> In Switzerland we call this a dairy account: income/expenses/difference and an overview of the assets: bank account 1, bank account 2, cash = total
  56 [21:24] <Etienne> Balance sheet is probably to good english word.
  57 [21:25] <bdmc> It is the term used in North American ( Canada, US ) accounting practice.
  58 [21:26] <bdmc> It shows the state ( at this moment ) of the business.  The Profit and Loss Report shows the activity of the business, and is used in filing tax returns.
  59 [21:26] <GuyScharinger> so as in France a held say of ledger where we enter the entries and took out the balance between the two
  60 [21:28] <bdmc> Yes, the Balance Sheet shows all of the current balances of each of the Asset and Liability accounts.
  61 [21:29] <pnunn> So can we say at the moment we have a President, Secretary, Vice President and one general committee member sorted out (perhaps more?).  What more do we need to do this morning/evening?
  62 [21:29] <Etienne> OK, I think it's clear what we need. We don't necessarily need to formally fill the post today. But by all means keep your eyes open. Ask people directly to be accountant
  63 [21:29] <bdmc> Profit and Loss shows Income and Expenses.
  64 [21:29] <Etienne> pnunn: 2. How do we organise ourselves: https://wiki.cacert.org/Brain/CAcertInc/Committee/MeetingAgendasAndMinutes/2020-12-10
  65 [21:30] <bdmc> Etienne: When you said "5 year commitment," did you really mean that?
  66 [21:32] <Etienne> bdmc: A board member is elected for one year. They can come and go. But if we "hire" someone, so to speak, I would like to see it as binding and longer-term from the very beginning.
  67 [21:33] <bdmc> I agree that if we form a contract and actually hire an accountant, then yes, that would be a good idea.  That would be a further expense, but might be worthwhile.
  68 [21:34] <Etienne> But even with a volunteer, you can find out whether he or she is willing to do it for a year or longer.
  69 [21:34] <GuyScharinger> that's what I thought too
  70 [21:34] <bdmc> At present, I am the "bookkeeper" for my business, and enter all of the data, but my accountant then takes those numbers and prepares my tax returns each year for approximately 750 euro per year.
  71 [21:35] <GuyScharinger> wouldn't there be an accounting association?
  72 [21:37] <bdmc> GuyScharinger:  Are you suggesting that they could propose people for us to talk to, or that they could offer to to that role for us?
  73 [21:37] <bdmc> ( to to = to do )
  74 [21:38] <Etienne> For us as an association, the simple composition as you make it yourself is actually sufficient. It is not difficult, but as an association and community we can only function if we can distribute the tasks on different shoulders.
  75 [21:41] <pnunn> Guys, I'm sorry to say that I have about another 20 minutes I can stay here, I have people turning up here shortly after that.
  76 [21:42] <Etienne> OK, let's move to 2.1:
  77 [21:42] <bdmc> pnunn: When you have to go, you go.  However, I don't think that we will take much longer.
  78 [21:42] <Etienne> in 2020 we met usually the first Thursday of each month. is this still OK for you?
  79 [21:43] <bdmc> Yes, are Wednesday/Thursday, or Thursday/Friday or Friday/Saturday, or some other combination, best?
  80 [21:43] <pnunn> The morning meetings this time of year are easier for me due to daylight savings, its only 7am start. 1sh Thursday works for me.
  81 [21:43] <Etienne> (it's friday morning for you, pnunn)
  82 [21:43] <pnunn> really, any morning is fine, yes that's right Etienne.
  83 [21:44] <bdmc> Etianne: You aren't talking about today, are you?
  84 [21:44] <bdmc> Because of what day Friday is?
  85 [21:45] <Etienne> bdmc: no, planning for 2021: Thursday evening in Europe/America is Friday morning in Australia.
  86 [21:45] <bdmc> OK, I am good, at the moment, for Thursday afternono/Friday.
  87 [21:45] <Etienne> 2.2. We met once per month, so we had enough time to do other/real work for CAcert. Is this still OK?
  88 [21:45] <pnunn> Fine by me, more frequent early next year could be an issue.
  89 [21:46] <bdmc> Well, we often adjust that frequency, to suit our needs.
  90 [21:46] <pnunn> That is also true.
  91 [21:47] <bdmc> Perhaps we can agree on that, right now, but discuss what needs to be done via the Board Private ( or even the Board ) mailing list?
  92 [21:47] <pnunn> Sounds like a plan.
  93 [21:48] <bdmc> I know that we have some outstanding tasks and projects and needs, but don't have time to discuss them now.
  94 [21:49] <Etienne> That is the homework until the next meeting: How much time can/will you invest each month? What will be your focus)? Who will/should be your sparring partner? This often seems to be more efficient as to do all work together during meetings.
  95 [21:50] <Etienne> I will look, that all will be subscribed at the board mailing list (Guy is not for the moment).
  96 [21:50] <Etienne> I will ask Bret for Westpac.
  97 [21:51] <Etienne> Brian, maybe you remember until January 7 somone from the people who wrote in last autumn that we could ask for acounting?
  98 [21:51] <Etienne> Please, read and share our blog: https://blog.cacert.org
  99 [21:51] <bdmc> Yes, I will search through those volunteers.  There MAY have been someone mention that role.
 100 [21:52] <Etienne> (c'est parfois aussi en français)
 101 [21:53] <bdmc> Merci beaucoup a tous.  ( if I remember my French from too long ago! )
 102 [21:53] <Etienne> Vive le Canada! Vive la Reine!
 103 [21:53] <bdmc> B-)
 104 [21:54] <GuyScharinger> :-D
 105 [21:54] <Etienne> Proposition: next meeting: January, 7th (8th for pnunn)
 106 [21:54] <bdmc> In any case, we should let Peter get to his guests.  Anything more for tonight? ( or his morning )
 107 [21:54] <pnunn> Etienne, just looked at the blog, the final comment in there says we are having problems with paypal. Who can update that?
 108 [21:55] <pnunn> I'll put it in my diary Etienne.
 109 [21:55] <bdmc> pnunn: I gather that you are not completely locked in?
 110 [21:55] <Etienne> egal can do it, I will tell him. I tougth the following posts from december.
 111 [21:55] <pnunn> No, amazingly. We have managed to almost eliminate the virus in Victoria, its just hit us again in NSW, but not back down here yet.
 112 [21:56] <bdmc> Good news.  I am in Alberta this month, and the numbers have been going up, unfortunately.
 113 [21:56] <pnunn> It has come back in with overseas travelers (I can't for a second work out why we have any of our international boarders open...)
 114 [21:56] <pnunn> It is very scary to watch the US and Europe at the moment.
 115 [21:57] <Etienne> We are advised to have "silent night" with maximum guest from one other household over this days. Well, I "stay at home" as my wife is working...
 116 [21:57] <pnunn> I hope you all stay safe, well and have a fantastic Christmas, despite the lock downs.
 117 [21:57] <bdmc> I had to be locked in my hotel room for two weeks when I first arrived.  Since then, not much different, since none of the family wants to see me!
 118 [21:57] <pnunn> That's sad Brian.
 119 [21:58] <bdmc> Ah, well.  We live in "interesting times."
 120 [21:58] <pnunn> Yeh, a very different Christmas this year, that's for certain.
 121 [21:58] <bdmc> Have a Very Happy Christmas, all ( as well as you can ), and a Merry New Year!
 122 [21:59] <pnunn> I look forward to talking to you all in 2021. May it be a much better year on many many fronts.
 123 [21:59] <pnunn> Good night.
 124 [21:59] <Etienne> Merry Christmas, pnunn! We have to wait until tomorrow for Christmas Eve ;-)
 125 [21:59] <Etienne> Good night
 126 [22:00] <bdmc> Good night
 127 [22:00] <Etienne> bdmc
 128 [22:00] <Etienne> bdmc, can you open your micro at jitsi, please?
 129 [22:00] <bdmc> Etienne: I hear your keyboard again.
 130 [22:11] <-- bdmc (bdmc@75.182.213.101) hat das Netzwerk verlassen (Quit: leaving)
 131 [22:17] <GuyScharinger> Bonne nuit tous le monde
 132 [22:17] <-- GuyScharinger (Guy@87-91-169-220.abo.bbox.fr) hat #board-meeting verlassen