1 [20:57] --> pnunn (pnunn@eth3936.vic.adsl.internode.on.net) hat #board-meeting betreten
   2 [20:57] --> Etienne (2efdbfd9@localhost) hat #board-meeting betreten
   3 [20:58] <pnunn> Morning
   4 [20:59] --> bdmc (bdmc@user-0c8huj1.cable.mindspring.com) hat #board-meeting betreten
   5 [21:00] <bdmc> Surprise!  I'm actually here today.  How about the rest of you?
   6 [21:01] <pnunn> Hi Brian.
   7 [21:01] <bdmc> 'Morning Peter.
   8 [21:01] <bdmc> I didn't see any response to Frederic's suggestion.
   9 [21:02] <pnunn> Getting warmer there yet? Nasty hot night here.
  10 [21:02] <bdmc> pnunn: Is it cooling off there?
  11 [21:02] <pnunn> lol.. 
  12 [21:02] <pnunn> It's meant to be cooler over the weekend I think. But not a good day today.
  13 [21:02] <bdmc> Oh, yes.  It is far too soon.  We didn't really have winter here, just rainy season.  It is about 23 this afternoon.
  14 [21:02] <Etienne> Hello to everyone
  15 [21:02] <pnunn> Hi Etienne.
  16 [21:03] <bdmc> Good evening Etienne.
  17 [21:03] <pnunn> OK, 23 is comfortable.
  18 [21:03] <bdmc> You, me, Peter.  Shall we start?
  19 [21:03] <pnunn> Its been 26 all night here and a strong north wind has now started.
  20 [21:03] <pnunn> Lets.
  21 [21:03] <bdmc> And the North ones are the bad ones, right?
  22 [21:04] <pnunn> Yes.. hot winds down from the centre of the country.
  23 [21:05] <bdmc> We had one day with snow, with disappeared by the next day, and perhaps half-a-dozen around zero, but not all together.  In between, it has been up in the high teens and low twenties.
  24 [21:05] <bdmc> ( with = which )
  25 [21:06] <bdmc> Etienne must be a bit busy.
  26 [21:06] <pnunn> Wow OK. That is odd.. The weather patterns have certainly got out of kilter this year.
  27 [21:07] <bdmc> Exactly.  Bouncing all over the place.
  28 [21:07] <Etienne> Busy as usual, but tonight I am here, 85% for CAcert at least.
  29 [21:07] <bdmc> And now all of this "plague" panic.
  30 [21:07] <bdmc> Etienne: Are you enough back to start the meeting, or shall we wait a bit longer?
  31 [21:09] <Etienne> Brian, concerning the "plague", it is probabely better to not follow the president of your country of residence. I can give you advices after the meeting, as my wife works in the local hospital.
  32 [21:09] <Etienne> The president may start.
  33 [21:10] <bdmc> I rarely listen to his ravings.
  34 [21:10] <bdmc> OK, now that it is XX:10, I call this meeting to order.
  35 [21:11] <bdmc> I have about one hour, myself.
  36 [21:11] <pnunn> That works for me.
  37 [21:11] <bdmc> I just saw a vote on the minutes of last month's meeting.  Where did that come from?
  38 [21:11] <Etienne> Probabely from Sascha.
  39 [21:11] <bdmc> I would prefer to call for the vote before it appears in the system.
  40 [21:12] <sat> Good evening
  41 [21:12] <bdmc> Does anybody have anything that they want to say about the minutes of last month's meeting?
  42 [21:13] <Etienne> Hello sat
  43 [21:13] <bdmc> In that case, may I have a motion to accept the minutes of our last meeting?
  44 [21:14] <pnunn> I'll move the motion to accept.
  45 [21:14] <sat> I motion that the minutes of Feb. 13 2020 be acceptet.
  46 [21:14] <Etienne> second and aye
  47 [21:14] <bdmc> We can mark one of the two of you as seconding.
  48 [21:14] <bdmc> All in favour?
  49 [21:15] <pnunn> aye
  50 [21:15] <sat> aye
  51 [21:15] <bdmc> aye
  52 [21:15] <bdmc> Next.  Anything in e-mail that we need to bring forward?
  53 [21:17] <bdmc> Nothing heard.  Do we have anybody here from Critical Team, especially Dirk, to talk to items 2.1.1 or 2.1.2?
  54 [21:18] <Etienne> Maybe we conitnue and come back later to this points?
  55 [21:19] <bdmc> Yes, I was waiting a minute.
  56 [21:19] <bdmc> Item 2.2.1 -- Paypal!
  57 [21:19] <bdmc> I haven't seen much recently, except their messages about refusing our money.
  58 [21:20] <bdmc> Any news?
  59 [21:20] <Etienne> No real progress in Moment. The Australian authorities are now dealing with the matter. Paypal requires us to contact them through a blocked account... A member of the finance team is ready for next steps in Australia in the real world: Bret.
  60 [21:21] <bdmc> If I remember correctly, the deadline from the Australian Government was the 20th.  Correct?
  61 [21:21] <pnunn> How crazy is this situation.
  62 [21:22] <bdmc> From what I have heard over the years, Paypal is known for these games.
  63 [21:22] <pnunn> Hell of a way to run a railway.
  64 [21:22] <bdmc> Too true.
  65 [21:23] <Etienne> The Australians started, but I do not know what.
  66 [21:23] <Etienne> My suggestion: We officially appoint Bret Watson as our representative against Paypal. That way he can perhaps do something in Australia.
  67 [21:23] <bdmc> Peter, is Bret three or four time zones West of you?
  68 [21:23] <Etienne> He suggested, that at the end he could phone or go to court.
  69 [21:23] <bdmc> Etienne: Yes, I remember that.
  70 [21:24] <pnunn> I think its two time zones, currently 3 hours difference I think.
  71 [21:25] <pnunn> Can we set up something else in the mean time? Stripe or ??
  72 [21:26] <bdmc> There have been several suggestions, most of which have gone nowhere.  The "best" at the moment is to donate money to Secure-U instead of CAcert.
  73 [21:26] <Etienne> What about "CAcert Inc, represented by its Board of Directors, hereby appoints Bret Watson as its agent in the matter of CAcert Inc v Paypal Australia Pty Ltd "
  74 [21:26] <pnunn> Yeh OK.
  75 [21:26] <pnunn> That sound good Etienne.
  76 [21:26] <Etienne> bdmc: Dontions in EUR to secure-U
  77 [21:26] <bdmc> Etienne: I agree with Peter.
  78 [21:27] <bdmc> Let us call that a motion and I will second it.
  79 [21:27] <pnunn> I'm happy to help Bret out from here too if necessary.
  80 [21:27] <Etienne> Donations in CHF and membership fees to our bank account in Switzerland.
  81 [21:27] <pnunn> aye
  82 [21:27] <pnunn> I guess from here we could just get direct deposits to the bank account.
  83 [21:27] <Etienne> Donations directly to Secure-U to avoid change and change again the amount.
  84 [21:27] <pnunn> But there not automatic.
  85 [21:27] <bdmc> We don't know about the bank account, except that you put most of the information about all of these items into the Agenda.
  86 [21:28] <Etienne> Donations from Australia to Westpac I suppose.
  87 [21:28] <pnunn> Yes.
  88 [21:28] <Etienne> Secure-U and Switzerland are both IBAN accounts.
  89 [21:29] <bdmc> Please hold up.  We have a motion on the floor, and need to finish that vote.  You are discussing things in Item 2.2.2.
  90 [21:29] <pnunn> I've voted aye for the motion.
  91 [21:30] <Etienne> If you allready voted, I suppose that the wording is OK.
  92 [21:30] <bdmc> sat: Just add "I move that" to the front of what Etienne said.
  93 [21:30] <Etienne> I move that CAcert Inc, represented by its Board of Directors, hereby appoints Bret Watson as its agent in the matter of CAcert Inc v Paypal Australia Pty Ltd .
  94 [21:31] <bdmc> I seconded, previously, and vote Aye.
  95 [21:31] <Etienne> aye
  96 [21:32] <bdmc> That's three For, none Against, no Abstentions.
  97 [21:32] <sat> aye
  98 [21:32] <bdmc> OK, Item 2.2.2.  The new bank account, to, for the moment, supplement Westpac.
  99 [21:33] <bdmc> Etienne: Do you have anything to add to the note in the Agenda?
 100 [21:34] <Etienne> No, not today, probabely in some days on the members mailing list.
 101 [21:35] <bdmc> OK.  Item 2.2.3.  Just a follow-up, I presume?
 102 [21:36] <Etienne> I hoped that one of the financial team could give some informations
 103 [21:36] <bdmc> I agree.  Unfortunately, I don't see anybody but us four, here.
 104 [21:36] <Etienne> I am in Contact with Christophe and Frédéric G. Both do god work and it seems that Christophe has already started.
 105 [21:37] <bdmc> Moving on.  Item 2.4.1 -- Presumably nothing here, today.
 106 [21:37] <bdmc> Sorry, that should be 2.3.1!!
 107 [21:37] <Etienne> I got reading access to a belgian accounting system (If I understood well)
 108 [21:37] --> FD (f.dumas@80.82.24.20) hat #board-meeting betreten
 109 [21:37] <bdmc> Welcome, Frederic!
 110 [21:38] <FD> Hello Brian,
 111 [21:38] <Etienne> Great FD, you just arrived for your topic 2.3.1.
 112 [21:38] <bdmc> Do you want to talk to Agenda Item 2.3.1?
 113 [21:38] <Etienne> (more than you wrote in the mail yesterday?)
 114 [21:38] <FD> Well,
 115 [21:40] <FD>  1. - Lack of strategic plan is a pain for all of us
 116 [21:41] <FD> 2. - Lack of networking between us is a major obstacle to efficiency (still have to get an answer from Dirk, for example)
 117 [21:41] --> Treasurer (Treasurer@2a01:e0a:25a:9160::a) hat #board-meeting betreten
 118 [21:42] <bdmc> Everybody's showing up.
 119 [21:43] <FD> 3. - Requirement to work together as any non-profit org works, i.e. with meeting people,
 120 [21:43] <FD> 4. - We solved the financial crisis, Paypal put it at risk again.
 121 [21:44] <FD> 5. - Reacting fast needs of us to share phone number, to be able to call to each other,
 122 [21:45] <FD> 6. - It is too much difficult to rely on sending mails with people on the other side who may do what they committed to do or who may not do it, who knows?
 123 [21:47] <FD> 7. Proposal: Setup a yellow page for direct phone access between us
 124 [21:47] <Etienne> 5/7: I will do that.
 125 [21:47] <FD> 7.2 Include any new volunteers in the yellow pages and in our meetings.
 126 [21:49] <FD> 7.3. - Drive the work as me may have done with development teams, i.e. looking **often** at what people are doing, instead of letting them working alone.
 127 [21:49] <FD> We need a new communication paradygm between us to be able to act efficiently.
 128 [21:49] <FD> EOF
 129 [21:50] <bdmc> 7.3 -- I don't know whether this could help, but we could set up some kind of "ticket" system, as Development has, to track progress, and save document revisions.
 130 [21:50] <Etienne> Maybe we create a small team of 2 or 3 to create concrete propositions until the next meeting or even before?
 131 [21:51] <bdmc> I'm just as guilty of 6 as anyone.  Number 1 is mine, too.
 132 [21:51] <Etienne> 1: bdmc and Peter M startet I think - allready finished? We have to find the answers, but not today, maybe until 20.3.
 133 [21:51] <bdmc> FD: I think that we discovered a problem with 5 between ourselves, if I remember correctly.  However, there are other ways.
 134 [21:51] <FD> 7.3 - I had more in mind that talking 10 minutes to someone twice a week provides a lot more motivation that reporting bay mail what was done once a month.
 135 [21:52] <bdmc> Agreed.  Just another tracking mechanism.
 136 [21:52] <pnunn> I absolutely agree that IRC is a clunky method for communicating and there would indeed be some efficiency gains if we used some sort of video/audio conferencing, however, on a purly selfish level, anything requiring voice at this time of mornig would be difficult for me (and will get worse when day light savings ends soon).
 137 [21:52] <bdmc> ( Tracking and sharing )
 138 [21:52] <FD> Steven and François might be interested in a brainstorming meeting with us regarding 1-
 139 [21:52] <pnunn> No problem with sharing phone numbers.
 140 [21:53] <bdmc> pnunn: That wouldn't appear to be a problem with people on the same continent, but there may be issues between continents.
 141 [21:54] <pnunn> For one on one meetings its no issue as we've done in teh past Brian. But a bit difficult for a mass meeting.
 142 [21:54] <Etienne> interncontinental contact should be OK if it is only 1:1 - more becomes difficult.
 143 [21:54] <bdmc> FD: I know that you have been promoting this idea for some time, and I am slowly coming around to "more modern" technology for some purposes.
 144 [21:55] <FD> I am at the moment on https://meet.jit.si/cacert
 145 [21:55] <FD> Who is Fellow jister ?
 146 [21:55] <bdmc> But we, Peter and I, or FD and I, have not used telephone, just Internet.
 147 [21:55] <pnunn> Lets face it.. its a hot topic here at the moment due to the virus issues, getting lots of people asking me about that.
 148 [21:55] <pnunn> True Brian.
 149 [21:56] <pnunn> But skype/zoom/jit.si/meet.me/etc Lots of choices for this sort of coms. But not so much logging available of the meetings.
 150 [21:56] <-> Treasurer heißt jetzt Frederic_G
 151 [21:57] <FD> Minutes are there to report what was said, aren't they?
 152 [21:58] <pnunn> Yes, but do minutes caputer everything? This chat log does.
 153 [21:58] <pnunn> But.. is that important? I'm don't know.
 154 [21:58] <bdmc> That has been my argument about this "formal" meetings all along.
 155 [21:59] <bdmc> The "working" meetings, perhaps not so important.
 156 [21:59] <FD> I used to work with board meetings in the past where we had the meeting captured as minutes, by someone listening at us, taking notes, writing it later. It worked well, without us having to type anything in real time.
 157 [21:59] <pnunn> True.. but then I guess no other committee I'm on takes a record of everything that happens other than the minutes.
 158 [21:59] <Etienne> Proposition: as the time comes to our deadline: I propose, I will send a mail to all with FD points and everyone can pick up one of them to prepare a concreate proposition or two variants until the end d of the month.
 159 [22:00] <FD> or the end of the week.
 160 [22:01] <bdmc> FD: Yes, that is fairly common in other formal meetings, where there is a "recording secretary" whose only job is the minutes.
 161 [22:02] <FD> And it worked very well, according to my experience.
 162 [22:02] <Etienne> end of the week: 22.3.2020
 163 [22:02] <bdmc> In our case, we use the log to allow the secretary to participate as a "real" member, and then prepare the minutes from the log.
 164 [22:04] <FD> Would you be happy with a video call with Steven and François, and most of us, in order to brainstorm about a strategic direction/plan for CAcert in 2020?
 165 [22:04] <FD> Should I propose a Doodle for that ?
 166 [22:05] <bdmc> Certainly.  As I said earlier in the week, I, very happily, am going to be busy from approximately 08:00 until 18:00 EDT ( UTC-4 ), weekdays, for the forseeable future.
 167 [22:05] <FD> Fine.
 168 [22:06] <bdmc> I start Tuesday.
 169 [22:06] <pnunn> New gig Brian?
 170 [22:06] <bdmc> FINALLY!!  I have been very under-employed, basically unemployed, for about two years.
 171 [22:06] <FD> Very good personal news of yours. I am happy with your new timetable, Brian!
 172 [22:07] <pnunn> Good stuff.. 
 173 [22:07] <pnunn> Need to find one myself :)
 174 [22:08] <bdmc> pnunn: Had enough of flying around the country, fighting fires?
 175 [22:08] <pnunn> They had enough of me unfortunately. Still doing some of it.. but not as much.
 176 [22:08] <pnunn> Seems they couldn't afford a CIO. 
 177 [22:08] <bdmc> In any case, this is WAY off topic.   Do we have anything more that we want to discuss for Item 2.3.1?
 178 [22:09] <FD> No, thank you Brian,
 179 [22:10] <bdmc> Do we have anything urgent for Item 2.3.2, or either of the 2.4 items?
 180 [22:11] <bdmc> Nothing heard.
 181 [22:12] <bdmc> In that case, it is Question Time.   Does anybody have anything?
 182 [22:12] <pnunn> Nothing here.
 183 [22:12] <FD> Typically, for 2.3.2, we have to talk to Lambert. He asked for such a video call with us.
 184 [22:12] <FD> We may involve Alastair at the same time.
 185 [22:13] <FD> Our main concern being to be able to train the new comers.
 186 [22:13] <Etienne> Telephone is best with Alex_U-UK.
 187 [22:13] <bdmc> Agreed.  ( to both )
 188 [22:14] <FD> a video call do not have to force everybody to switch on his/her webcam.
 189 [22:14] <FD> Alastair may join the meeting on its audio channel alone.
 190 [22:14] <bdmc> In that case, we have several meetings to set up.  However, for the present, the next Board Meeting.  Are we comfortable with the Second Thursday in April, or do we want to make it earlier?
 191 [22:15] <bdmc> Nobody?
 192 [22:16] <FD> Let's keep it like we planned, once per month, especially if we have the coming few video call to talk together too.
 193 [22:17] <Etienne> Yes, when we have calls and everyone does his small task, this is OK.
 194 [22:18] <bdmc> Good.  In that case, I will see all ( and more? ) of you in a month.
 195 [22:18] <bdmc> Others before that.
 196 [22:18] <FD> OK, fine.
 197 [22:18] <pnunn> Indeed.
 198 [22:18] <bdmc> I hereby call this meeting complete, and closed.