→ Etienne has joined 
21:57:40
pnunn
Morning all 
21:58:04
Etienne
Good morning pnunn 
21:58:30
→ bdmc has joined 
21:58:44
Etienne
Hello bdmc, pnunn said jusst Good Morning 
21:58:44
bdmc
'Morning, all. 
21:59:08
Greetings Peter.  Welcome to dawn ( or is that pre-dawn? ) 
21:59:24
Hi Etienne. 
21:59:28
pnunn
Its not too bad now, an hour later than previously. 
21:59:41
Etienne
Hello bdmc 
22:00:01
bdmc
Ah, you've had your time change.  In North America it is the end of this month, if I remember correctly. 
22:00:18
pnunn
Yes, still getting used to it though. 
22:00:24
bdmc
Shall we get rolling? 
22:00:41
pnunn
Lets 
22:01:13
bdmc
Etienne,  I know that nobody else is here yet, but would you please publish the Agenda URL? 
22:01:23
I hereby call this meeting to order. 
22:01:26
Etienne
https://wiki.cacert.org/Brain/CAcertInc/Committee/MeetingAgendasAndMinutes/2019-10-17 
22:02:03
bdmc
As we have been doing recently, we are jumbling the Agenda order, trying to get to the priority items earlier in the meeting, so that they get addressed. 
22:02:38
I will note that I need to leave in about an hour, so Etienne will continue afterwards. 
22:02:43
→ FD has joined 
22:02:53
bdmc
'Morning Frederic. 
22:03:44
That's the FD version of Frederic. 
22:04:15
FD
Good afternoon Brian, bonsoir Etienne, hello everybody! 
22:05:00
bdmc
According to my reading, we don't have Minutes for the 5th of September, but we do have those for the 26th. 
22:05:15
Can I hear a motion to accept the Minutes of the 26th? 
22:06:09
pnunn
So moved 
22:06:09
bdmc
Hold it! 
22:06:29
Etienne
I motion to accept the minutes from 10th of october 2019 
22:06:33
bdmc
I am looking at a link for the 26th, but it goes to minutes for October 10th. 
22:06:50
FD
https://wiki.cacert.org/Brain/CAcertInc/Committee/MeetingAgendasAndMinutes/2019-09-26 
22:07:10
Etienne
Minutes from 26-09 allready voted. 
22:07:21
https://motion.cacert.org/motions/m20191010.3 
22:07:21
bdmc
Etienne: Please tell us which Minutes are outstanding and which we need to discuss? 
22:07:34
Etienne
minutes from 10th of october 2019 
22:07:53
bdmc
Which are shown as the 26th of September in our Agenda? 
22:08:00
Etienne
yes 
22:08:19
sorry for missadaption of the old agenda 
22:08:30
bdmc
Would you please correct that before next meeting? 
22:08:38
Etienne
the link is OK: 26 links to 10 
22:09:04
bdmc
Yes, but the link in the Agenda must match the content. 
22:09:38
Etienne
allready done in the wiki 
22:09:49
bdmc
OK.  We have a motion on the floor to accept the Board Meeting Minutes for October 10th. 
22:09:52
I second. 
22:09:59
All in favour? 
22:10:04
FD
I was absent on the 10th of October, unfortunately, I have to abstain. 
22:10:09
Etienne
aye 
22:10:11
pnunn
abs 
22:10:15
bdmc
aye 
22:10:32
No nayes, so, technically, it passes. 
22:10:40
FD
Good. 
22:10:55
bdmc
Next, any messages in either of the mailing lists that we need to discuss? 
22:11:10
I know that there are still some Volunteer messages that need action. 
22:12:43
bdmc
Lorenzo and Pascal, in particular. 
22:12:53
( Those are the ones that I see first. ) 
22:13:46
Etienne
Lorenzo is from Ticino, Switzerland, I could answer him until the end of this week. 
22:13:47
bdmc
OK.  Moving on.  Shall we start with the Critical Team?  I haven't heard anything recently on this subject. 
22:14:13
Etienne. Thank you. 
22:14:19
Etienne
We should assure, that the hand over starts now. 
22:14:40
In two hurs we have the motions from last week passed. 
22:15:09
https://motion.cacert.org/motions/m20191010.4 
22:15:14
bdmc
I know that egal isn't here.  He volunteered to manage the Critical Team transition, as I remember. 
22:15:18
Etienne
https://motion.cacert.org/motions/m20191010.5 
22:17:00
bdmc
I don't think that there is anything more that we can do on this subject without a contribution from egal. 
22:17:09
Etienne
Who gets in contact with M....., egal, W...? 
22:18:16
Etienne
Furthermore, we have to present the names from https://motion.cacert.org/motions/m20191010.1 to W... 
22:18:21
bdmc
I can write a note to egal, asking for his plan.  As far as W..., I can write something, saying that we have done everything that we can, and that it is up to the three of them to continue. 
22:19:13
Etienne
Good, have a look to the 3 motions first and add the mail addresses, that W... or egal can get in touch with each other. 
22:19:26
bdmc
As far as I remember, W... was already given that list. 
22:20:01
Etienne
Even then, it helps, if he has all together. 
22:20:14
bdmc
( Maybe a month ago, but certainly at the beginning of this month. ) 
22:20:43
As far as I remember, I included you and FD on that message. 
22:21:50
Etienne
Have you any answers of local candidates (I had only a copy from Gereon) 
22:22:27
bdmc
That was the only positive answer that I received.  There was one negative answer, and nothing else. 
22:22:43
Etienne
Who's was negative? 
22:23:01
bdmc
M....., ( the other one ) I think. 
22:23:16
I sent it to you. 
22:23:37
→ LambertHofstra has joined 
22:23:45
bdmc
Greetings Lambert. 
22:23:56
→ dops has joined 
22:24:03
bdmc
Welcome dops 
22:24:08
FD
Hi Gero ! 
22:24:18
Good evening Lambert! 
22:24:19
dops
Hi all 
22:24:39
bdmc
We have three continents represented. 
22:25:02
Continuing.  I guess that my first job is to contact egal, and ask what his plan is. 
22:25:15
( It is out of our hands, now. ) 
22:25:39
Etienne
Tell him, what his tasks are: get in contact with M..... and W... and start hand over. 
22:26:09
(it's not his plan, but ours (he included)) 
22:26:50
bdmc
I thought that he was talking about some plan last week, how he intended to proceed.  I will write him and see what I can find out. 
22:28:19
bdmc
( Completely off topic, but not really.  I think that we need some kind of reminder system, other than Etienne, to record tasks and the people to whom they are assigned.  -- I know, we have the Action Items, if we actually maintain them, but they don't send us nag messages. ) 
22:28:22
FD
In case you would like to include B... in the Critical Team too, it might be good to invite him as well for the hand-over. Always better to learn from the primary source (here: W...), than to get informed by the new admin (here: M.....) 
22:28:58
Etienne
Exactly FD, that is https://motion.cacert.org/motions/m20191010.1 
22:29:27
bdmc
FD: That was the problem.  Last week, egal said that he was going to take over the Critical Team ( or words to that effect ) and had a plan for the hand-over and everything.   That is what I need to talk to him about. 
22:29:28
Etienne
As much people as possible have to learn from the primary source. 
22:29:41
bdmc
FD: Who is B...? 
22:29:54
FD
https://lists.cacert.org/wws/arc/cacert-board-private/2019-09/msg00006.html 
22:30:21
@Etienne: very good. 
22:30:22
Etienne
bdmc, you proposed him to W... after reading his CV 
22:31:00
bdmc
OK, thank you.   I can't read the link that FD sent. 
22:31:38
Anything more on this subject, or should we move on? 
22:31:44
Etienne
As we have only 13 days remaining, egal will meet W... in the NL and we have to assure that as much of the others can join in real live or remotly. 
22:32:37
The names of the others are in the two other motions. 
22:32:56
LambertHofstra
(hi all, cant stay online myself, just started this for the logs, will read tomorrow) 
22:33:17
bdmc
LambertHofstra: Thank you for stopping in. 
22:33:52
FD
@Lambert: nice to have you with us. 
22:33:53
bdmc
I don't remember whether egal considered himself a "local" or only the Team Manager. 
22:34:13
Etienne
local interim manager 
22:34:13
FD
@Brian: the link directs to an archived mail sent to < cacert-board-private@lists.cacert.org> on the 5th of September, proposing B...'s application to Critical Team and explaining why. 
22:34:50
→ Treasurer has joined 
22:34:54
FD
I took the link from the agenda of today's meeting. 
22:34:59
bdmc
FD: Thank you.  I remember, now that you remind me.  I don't think that he was on our "short" list, though, was he? 
22:35:13
Treasurer: Welcome. 
22:35:34
FD
He was. He is located around 300km from Ede, and might be considered as "local" as well. 
22:35:36
Etienne
bdmc: he was on the motion with the short list 
22:36:00
bdmc
Etienne: See I have a great memory, just REALLY REALLY short! 
22:36:20
OK, moving on, finally. 
22:36:54
Etienne
we have to guide the new 
22:36:54
volunteers to task that fits to them and look, that they get integrated in 
22:36:54
the existing teams in one manner or another. The main question is: how to 
22:36:54
integrate this new people. 
22:37:19
(are two topics on the agenda: general teams and arb) 
22:37:26
bdmc
We have several different, but related, items in the agenda, labelled Finances.  Since our Treasurer is here, shall we go there, or back to Etienne's suggestion? 
22:38:01
Etienne
Part of finances is also of integration into (finance) teams 
22:38:15
Treasurer
yes, it is 
22:38:15
bdmc
Understood 
22:38:31
Etienne
let's say 15 min finances and 15 min building teams. 
22:38:41
(befor bdmc is leaving) 
22:38:48
bdmc
OK.  Speed dating it is. 
22:39:22
FD
In regards to building teams, I would suggest for that to hire first managers dedicated to that task. I mean, these people wanting to be members of the board. They could help at welcoming and dispatching new comers. At the moment, we are not a lot more than three of us to do it. 
22:39:25
bdmc
Did we come up with an answer for our corporate donors question. 
22:40:03
As I remember, there were some technical and policy issues. 
22:40:33
Etienne
People interested to support, I started to ask the to join the support list and help there first. If they do good work, we can move them to triage and then support after ABC. 
22:40:49
bdmc
I thought that we were doing Finances first? 
22:40:51
FD
OK. 
22:40:56
Etienne
OK 
22:41:15
bdmc
I can do something else, if you want. 
22:41:28
Etienne
Treasurer, are you ready? 
22:41:42
Treasurer
yes 
22:41:51
bdmc
Let's look at item 3, first. 
22:42:13
Etienne
Details of donations. 
22:42:15
bdmc
Treasurer: Do you have a "grand" total of our donations after the 360k? 
22:42:55
Treasurer
I am not able to currently segment donations and fees. I have around 250 receipts late 
22:43:24
What I can say is our bank account amount, regardless of how it comes 
22:43:24
bdmc
There will be very few membership fees.  Most are donations in some form. 
22:43:54
FD
May you provide a breakdown between all the currencies which we received donations or fees in? 
22:43:59
bdmc
I presume that this is the account "today," after bills have been paid? 
22:44:24
Treasurer
Paypal €8,615.54 EUR* (estimated EUR value) 
22:44:26
€5,975.29 EUR 
22:44:27
$3,660.33 AUD €2,153.42 in EUR) 
22:44:27
$556.42 USD (€486.83 in EUR) 
22:44:57
bdmc
Are there any outstanding bills? 
22:45:02
Etienne
yes 
22:45:19
Treasurer
No, from my side 
22:45:24
Etienne
but also about 6000€ at secure-U for CAcert 
22:46:00
Finances, topic 5 is an invoice to pay 1107.65 EUR 
22:46:05
Treasurer
Right from Secure-U. This is a new information from Etienne that comes from Secure-U 
22:46:33
FD
Does Frederic has an overview on precise amount received by Secure-U, or is the information available from egal? 
22:46:56
bdmc
I would hope that the Treasurer has this information. 
22:47:00
Etienne
sorry, not 6000, but >5000. 
22:47:36
Treasurer and Secretary nows only "a little bit more than 5000" 
22:48:01
Secure-U is short in workers and did not made the addition until now. 
22:48:03
Treasurer
No, I got this information from Etienne, not from Secure-U who didn't answer to my questions about our balance in their account 
22:48:40
bdmc
OK.  Is this money available for future Secure-U bills, or do we take it back, or? 
22:49:13
Etienne
This money is to lower future bills. Details can be negociated with them. 
22:49:18
Treasurer
I suggest that it stays to Secure-U, since we are now funded in Paypal and Westpac 
22:49:34
bdmc
All right.  That sounds like a reasonable plan. 
22:49:44
Next, I want to talk about Item 2. 
22:49:50
Treasurer
But, nonethess, we are at risk if Secure-U fails 
22:50:17
Recurring financial incoming? 
22:50:23
bdmc
We are at risk if Secure-U fails, since they are the ones that we pay for hosting. 
22:50:38
Etienne
The hire for us the racks. 
22:50:48
bdmc
Treasurer: Yes, do you know what our monthly income is? 
22:51:04
Etienne
Secure-U are egal and Ted and a 3rd one. Not so much risk. 
22:51:43
Treasurer
got it 
22:52:24
FD
Coming to point 2, may you give us a picture about recurring (automatic) payments, Frederic? 
22:52:27
Treasurer
@bdmc no exactly, for the same reasons I have receipts late, and I write incomes when I send the receipt. I guess around 200-300 Eur, according to my memory. 
22:52:37
FD
How much of them have been registered? 
22:52:55
bdmc
Thank you.  Would you please prepare a summary of that information for next meeting? 
22:53:17
Briefly.  Item 4 -- I presume that that invoice has been paid? 
22:53:18
Treasurer
I will 
22:53:23
FD
Which amount are we sure to receive from donators in the coming years? 
22:53:55
Etienne
Etienne will be absent for 3-4 min. 
22:54:16
bdmc
FD: It is never sure, but there are monthly contracts with Paypal, and some annual ones, too. 
22:54:33
That was what I asked Frederic to prepare for next meeting. 
22:54:55
Item 4, and then we will move to Item 5, and I will be gone. 
22:54:57
Treasurer
FD around 200-300 a year. Not more than 500, roughly 
22:55:21
It gives us an idea. This is not 100, this is not 1000 either 
22:56:01
FD
OK guys, I did not see you will come back to point 2 at the next meeting. Good. Point 4 now, last invoice, right? 
22:56:06
bdmc
OK.  I guess that I will pass the baton to Etienne, when he returns.  I need to go to an apppointment. 
22:56:17
Treasurer
I paid the invoice as soon as we had enough money in Paypal 
22:56:35
So, no past due to date 
22:56:46
FD
You know, there was no vote on that. 
22:57:05
We got this mail from egal, on the 6th of October: "But ... compared to the invoices done before by Gero or Michael now we have to pay the transaction fees, which are quite high". Why these additional transaction fees appeared? How the payement of the last bill has been triggered from Paypal? 
22:58:11
Treasurer
Two questions. 
22:59:37
Treasurer
1) we agreed to pay the bill, that I put on the table only for information purpose. As a treasurer, I don't need a special vote to pay such a recurring invoice 
23:00:16
2) what are the transaction fees you are writing about? 
23:00:57
Etienne
Secure-U has to pay - if I remember well - between 50 and 70. 
23:01:05
FD
egal gave us the details in his mail from the 6th 
23:01:35
egal wrote 177€. 
23:01:51
Treasurer
177€? for what? 
23:02:12
FD
For having received the money from Paypal to Paypal. 
23:02:16
Etienne
have to pay the transation-fees, which are quite high: 
23:02:16
 
23:02:16
Invoice 2017-02, 56.65 EUR 
23:02:16
Invoice 2018-02, 59.93 EUR 
23:02:16
Invoive 2019-01, 61.07 EUR 
23:02:16
 
23:02:16
Total:  177.65 EUR 
23:02:39
Is there a way to pay paypal to paypal with less fees? 
23:03:16
FD
Were some currency exchanges involved in the payment? 
23:03:22
Treasurer
I don't know and have no instructions from former treasurers about that 
23:04:26
Treasurer
@FD As far as I know, Paypal transform AUD or USD in EUR from our side, not at the expense of receiver 
23:04:37
And I paid in Euros 
23:05:03
How did the former treasurers do? 
23:05:33
FD
Gero directed me to Paypal's exchange fees: it starts from 4% for exchanging from AUD to EUR. 
23:05:59
Etienne
If you pay as "friend or family"? 
23:06:16
FD
This is why we did not vote the payment of the last invoice, to find a way to complete currency exchange at better conditions. 
23:06:57
Treasurer
Disagree. 
23:08:15
Treasurer
Invoice was (obviously) accepted. At that time, we only had money on Westpac and we were worried about transaction fees from AUD to EUR from Westpac. Not from Paypal. 
23:09:07
Etienne
For me, there are two things: The past we cannot change anymore and the future. 
23:09:07
Who can find out the best way to bpay with and without paypal? 
23:09:07
Do we have to motion the bill from 2018? 
23:09:09
Treasurer
This is why I stayed Westpac still, and used Paypal as usual. 
23:10:09
Etienne
As secure-U is not short on money, maybe we find it out until november and skip it today. 
23:10:48
Treasurer
1) I am eager to learn how to better use Paypal from whomever knows the tricks 
23:11:28
2) we don't have to motion the bill. Everything is clear and payed. No debt, as far as I know. 
23:12:04
Etienne
OK, so we do nothing tonight/today. 
23:12:49
Let's come back to team building (software/arbitration/finances) 
23:13:06
Treasurer
I would like to get some help to catch the future treasurer's team 
23:13:25
Etienne
What kind of help do you need? 
23:14:13
Treasurer
In my records, I have seven names, not nine. And I would be happy to move to select whom we choose 
23:15:44
Treasurer
Not very good English, sorry. I would prefer that we will be at least two of us to select or study the candidates 
23:15:54
FD
Michael Judd and Kalle Kivimaa looked for me as the most promising applicants. 
23:16:24
Etienne
All I can do is tell you how I do it at OrgA: cover letter, tell what to do. Answer questions. The number melts, from the first, second, third contact crystallizes who remains and is useful. 
23:17:33
Etienne
It's not on us the choose. The AGM votes a treasurer, but we would like to form a financial team of some people. 
23:17:35
Treasurer
That looks like a good starting plan. Thank you 
23:17:42
dops
A note to Michael J.: He formerly was part of the finance team. He knows at least some objectives, and ERP systems. 
23:17:53
A note about ERP systems: IMO we need a new one. 
23:18:37
FD
Thanks for the info about Michael, Gero. 
23:18:49
Etienne
Treasurer: Try to form a team with this 7. At the end there will be less. On of them can become the new treasurer. 
23:19:13
Treasurer
@dops Thank you, useful information. With your comment, I remember having seen this name before. And, yes, we need a new software. 
23:19:41
Etienne
Discuss the software topic with the 7. 
23:19:42
Treasurer
Etienne, got it. 
23:19:55
Etienne
Maybe you want a finance-team mailing list? 
23:21:06
Treasurer
good idea 
23:21:21
Not mandatory, but surely useful 
23:21:36
FD
As a side note, Christophe M is a top applicant too, he declared the highest proficiency of them all. But might be too busy at work. Worth to talk to him. 
23:22:13
Treasurer
Yes. Let's talk together outside the meeting 
23:22:23
Etienne
OK 
23:22:25
LambertHofstra, if you read this tomorrow: We have some people interested to join Arbitration. Can you check with your colleagues how to integrate them step by step in your team? 
23:22:49
Next topic, still team building: Software. 
23:23:04
FD, you had some ideas? 
23:23:21
FD
In regards to building teams, I would suggest for that to hire first managers dedicated to that task. I mean, these people wanting to be members of the board. They could help at welcoming and dispatching new comers. At the moment, we are not a lot more than three of us to do it. 
23:24:19
We are the bottleneck. 
23:24:48
Etienne
I agree. That is a kind as I proposed to support candidates to join the support mailing list and help there to show their comittment and help in the same time. 
23:27:00
FD
I am going to propose you half a dozen names before the next meeting, of such people who may be asked to help at staffing the teams. 
23:27:41
Etienne
Thank you. One interested in board stuff could write the minutes... 
23:28:11
FD
Do you want me to write the minutes of the 5th of September? 
23:28:25
I know how boring it is to come back to old logs. 
23:28:44
I may do it, should you think it helps. 
23:29:24
Etienne
No, I allready started, but as I am in holiday alone with my little boy, there is less time for such stuff until saturday. 
23:29:38
FD
Ok, fine. 
23:30:14
I spent the week alone with mine (3 year old) too. :-) 
23:30:29
Etienne
So, do you think we find some people that can motivate others to pick up bugs, join devel list etc.? 
23:33:04
FD
What I learned from a talk with Tim (a dev who I helped two weeks ago by videoconference to solve a matter with his CAcert's code signing certificate), is that people of very good will, people wanting to help, these people won't move until the moment someone allocate one precise task to them. 
23:33:15
No manager, no work completed. 
23:33:21
This is a the bare equation. 
23:34:04
Coming back to your question, I would re-formulate it: Not as "could we find", but as "is it mandatory to find", The answer is yes. 
23:35:12
Etienne
aah, now I understand. Yes, find to best tasks for each volunteer. That needs a task manager ;-) 
23:36:04
If you could find them (or at least some names that maybe....) that would be great. 
23:36:15
← pnunn has quit (Ping timeout: 121 seconds) 
23:36:42
Etienne
So Team Leads have mostl one contact and not douzends. That sounds very good. 
23:38:23
Etienne
I think we get some good steps forewards. and we did the most pressing topics for today. 
23:38:37
FD
Very true. 
23:38:44
Etienne
Any important question for question time? 
23:39:25
FD
Yes, perhaps for dops. 
23:39:36
Etienne
Yes, please 
23:40:38
FD
@dops: have you any information for helping us to understand the difficulties we had with Paypal recently ? Pleas, look at my question in "Question time", in the agenda. 
23:40:43
https://wiki.cacert.org/Brain/CAcertInc/Committee/MeetingAgendasAndMinutes/2019-10-10 
23:40:54
@dops 
23:42:10
FD
dops left, I guess. 
23:42:24
dops
no, I'm still here. 
23:42:43
Etienne
dops, if you want, you can still answer 
23:43:55
FD
@Gero: the second link directs to the mail I sent to you on Sun, 8 Sep 2019 22:43:17 +0200 
23:44:19
dops
To make it short: I don't know. But the old link used HTTP POST, which has more possible parameters and therefore more complicated as the other option which I found by a link generator. 
23:45:14
Etienne
Thank you, dops. 
23:45:31
dops
For a complete answer one probably has to study technical integration offers by PayPal together with fees for different payment methods. 
23:45:48
FD
And regarding the "payement" vs "donation" issue ? 
23:45:52
Etienne
Of course. 
23:46:11
And friend and family and after 3 month it will change :-( 
23:46:20
FD
From my mail: 
23:46:21
All "donations" were made in EUR and notified to Robert Cruikshank < paypal@cacert.org> 
23:46:28
All "payments" (including "seller protection") were made is AUD and notified to CAcert Incorporated < paypal@cacert.org> 
23:46:36
Fees are not the same. 
23:47:08
Etienne
So, we should create new links for the AUD buttons. 
23:47:43
FD
Who is "we"? :-) 
23:48:13
dops
Robert might be the creator of the CAcert Inc. account. 
23:48:17
FD
Gero, would you be kind enough for volunteering? 
23:48:27
Etienne
Finance Team could dtart with this and evaluating the new software. 
23:48:32
dops
FD: yes 
23:49:21
FD
@etienne: better asking Gero. Finance team will do it in 2020. It is a pity to loose money on Paypal fees in the meantime. 
23:49:57
Etienne
The secretary can provide PP access to dops. 
23:50:50
FD
Gero, I would suggest to provide the new Paypal links as a ticket in Mantis, as it will require an update of our main software to be put in place on our main web page. 
23:51:51
dops
good idea 
23:52:34
FD
Well guys, 8 minutes before midnight, would it be time for bed? 
23:52:55
Etienne
Next meeting: 24 or 31? I propose a general meeting on Thud 31-10-2019 and one about Crit Team with bdmc, egal, M..... and who wants <60 min on Thu 24-10-2019. 
23:53:18
FD
OK 
23:53:25
Etienne
Thank you. 
23:53:33
FD
Thank you Etienne, 
23:53:45
Thank you Frédéric, 
23:53:50
Thank you Gero, 
23:54:05
and other perhaps silently on line. 
23:54:06
Etienne
Thank you to all: dops, egal, bdmc, FD, Treasurer, ... 
23:54:10
Treasurer
Etienne, say hello to C... 
23:54:10
Etienne
pnunn 
23:54:20
FD
Peter left, unfortunately. 
23:54:34
Etienne
Treasurer: I will tomorrow morning. 
23:54:57
← Treasurer has left  
23:55:07
Etienne
So, I will close this meeting, See you again in two weeks here and before by mail. 
23:55:28
Good bye. 
23:55:41
FD
Bue! 
23:55:43
Bye! 
00:06:06
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