#board-meeting #CAcert egal 22:01:10 [NickServ] Welcome to CAcert, Etienne! Here on CAcert, we provide services to enable the registration of nicknames and channels! For details, type /msg NickServ help and /msg ChanServ help. 22:01:10 → Etienne has joined 22:01:41 bdmc Greetings, All. 22:01:45 Etienne hello, sorry, I am late. 22:01:59 bdmc Shall we start, or wait for others? 22:02:44 So far, there are only the two of us. 22:03:26 Etienne Well, start with things that not need a quorum: 22:03:36 I will write the minutes. 22:03:58 bdmc I have a hard stop at 23:45 ( 21:45 UTC ) because I have a meeting following this. 22:04:20 Etienne Timelimit: could we tray 90 minutes? (tomorrow II have to travel in the early morning) 22:04:40 OK: goal:21:30 with 15 minutes margin. 22:05:03 bdmc That sounds good to me. I have been very disappointed by the lack ( except yours ) of response to all of my messages over the past couple of weeks. 22:05:44 Etienne For the minutes, we can skip them and I put them to the vote bot, so everyone can accept it today or tomorrow online. 22:06:06 bdmc Good enough. Also, probably, the mailing lists. 22:06:43 In fact, at this point, I don't see anything in the Agenda that can be done without others. 22:07:03 I know, we can do Question Period! B-) 22:08:45 Etienne in between, you can vote for the minutes: https://motion.cacert.org/motions/ 22:09:09 bdmc If we don't see anybody in the next 15 minutes, should be schedule another meeting for the 17th? I seem to remember some people said that they would prefer today to then, because they couldn't attend next week. 22:09:57 I see that the Minutes for the 5th aren't there yet. 22:12:21 Etienne No, but at least the irc script is added. I hope to have some more thime in the next 10 days whyle beeing in the mountains with my son. 22:12:29 egal while the board-meeting is not yet started ... maybe we could a little bit smalltalk ... -) 22:12:32 ;-) 22:12:39 hi from germany ... 22:12:43 bdmc Thank you, Dirk. Nice to see you. 22:13:00 Also, Etienne, your link for the Minutes for the 26th, points at the 19th. 22:13:15 Etienne Hello again, Dirk 22:13:37 egal well ... i'll not stay online for long ... as my phonecall yesterday took some longer ... 22:13:40 bdmc egal: One small note. Did you see my question about RoundQube? ( e-mail a couple of weeks ago ) 22:14:33 egal nope ... but i'm sure i received it ... should be somewhere within my 6500+ mails in my inbox ... 22:14:34 Etienne bdmc: sorry, it is fixed now (copy-paste-error) 22:14:54 bdmc: send it to egal now to his gmx address. 22:15:28 bdmc That was where I sent, if I remember correctly. ( not to support, but only to Dirk. ) 22:16:05 egal: I know that problem. I managed to reduce mine to 9800 recently. 22:16:25 I will re-send now. 22:20:10 bdmc Found it. From the 20th, and re-sent just now. 22:21:18 bdmc Etienne: How do I vote? I tried clicking on the "Aye" "Naye" "Abstain" buttons, and nothign. 22:21:23 ( nothing ) 22:23:15 Etienne There are two kind of buttons: white ones with a green/red/gray border and under them full coulored ones. Click on the full coulored ones. 22:23:40 Are you logged in with your certificate? 22:24:48 bdmc That's what I did. No, I didn't. I only have the white ones with couloured print. 22:25:08 As far as I know. I was prompted for a certificate when I went to that page. 22:26:18 Etienne The white ones shows only the results. 22:26:22 bdmc I tried a hard refresh ( Shift-Click ) and nothing changed. 22:26:52 Does it care which CAcert Certificate I use? 22:26:54 egal @bdmc ... you have mail ... ;-) 22:27:15 bdmc egal: Oh, No! Not more mail. B-) 22:27:39 Etienne bdmc: you have to log in as Brian Mc Cullough brian.mccullough@cacert.org 22:27:41 egal @etienne ... did you talk about critical team with bdmc within the last 24 hours? 22:28:59 bdmc egal: Thank you. That was what I am doing, now that I got the correct credentials for Thunderbird. So just discard CAcert Roundcube until we put some of our infrastructure people to work? 22:29:06 Etienne I snt him an resumee at 23:14 UTC last night. 22:29:30 bdmc Etienne: I didn't see a login prompt. Just a certificate prompt. Where should I look for that? 22:30:01 Etienne: I will have to look for that. I only saw your reply to Wytze. 22:30:08 Etienne You need a certificate with this mail address or a secretary who can put you votes as a proxy ;-) 22:30:49 some more information: 22:30:49 - Mark O is one of the remaining 3 active secure-U members (Mark, Dirk, 22:30:49 Ted) -> would be a good choice 22:30:49 - Stefan K(omann) is member of the Access Team (they work at BIT and do 22:30:49 things for secure-U). Other Access Team members are Rudi van Drumen, Bas 22:30:49 van Dikkenberg, Hans Verbeek, R.L.M. Engelberking. -> not ask 22:30:49 22:30:49 Dirk (most probabely with Joost) is willing to escort the local members of 22:30:49 the new crit. team to the hand over. As they have a lot of background 22:30:49 knowledge from CAcert, they can probabely profit more than new members from 22:30:49 what Wytze will tell as they see it always in the whole context. So, Mark 22:30:49 will not be alone. I hope we will have at least one more new one. It is a 22:30:49 propositions to securing knowledge. We have to give them an official 22:30:49 mission (for access to BIT), both have an ABC. Dirk will be on the meeting 22:30:49 during the first hour and meet Joost on the weekend. 22:32:24 egal i'll try to meet joost at the weekend ... 22:32:33 bdmc Etienne: Hmmm. I don't seem to have that message at all. Only your meeting invitations. 22:33:09 egal: Thank you for the help. I have been having no responses to any of the messages that I have been sending out. 22:34:33 bdmc One that I thought of approaching was Mendel Mobach, who is, as far as I know, on the Infrastructure Support team. 22:34:37 Etienne bdmc, can you send me an e-mail with the names/adresses of the people you contacted? So I can dig deeper. 22:35:00 egal mendel is critical team member ... 22:35:02 Etienne Mendel Mobach is in the Crit Team with Wytze and resigning. 22:35:23 bdmc Oh. OK. I had not seen his name before. 22:35:48 Etienne Wytze wrote it in April, I think. (long time ago) 22:36:16 bdmc I also wrote to Remko Van der Vossen and Raoul Boerlage through LinkedIn. 22:36:37 I saw his message, I guess that I didn't remember that name. 22:37:32 Etienne Did you ask Mark Overmeer? Gereon Stein? Florian Wolters? 22:37:35 egal raoul tells me something ... remko doesn't ... 22:37:58 bdmc I don't recognize any of those names, so no. 22:38:32 I know that Frederic was doing some research before the 360k as well. I don't think that we exchanged lists. 22:38:39 Etienne Do you have access to "Brian McCullough "? 22:38:57 bdmc Yes, just a moment, while I get that fixed. 22:39:11 Etienne I sent a list to this address at Mon 7. Oct 22:21:42 22:40:34 egal for karl-heinz i plan to start support-training late october, early november ... so he should be able to take support and (maybe) software assessment-roles ... 22:40:56 Etienne That sounds good, egal. 22:46:51 egal starting by tomorrow (or saturday) i'll be on holiday for a week (-ish) ... hopefully with internet ... but i'm not sure ... ;-( 22:47:29 bdmc Etienne: OK, I definitely used the certificate for bmccullough@cacert.org this time, and nothing changed on the Motion page. 22:47:58 egal: Sometimes no Internet is a Good thing! B-) 22:49:06 egal my inbox will explode before i'm back ... ;-) 22:49:33 Etienne egal: 6000 or 7000 is not a big difference ;-) 22:50:57 bdmc egal: the host for mail, both incoming and outgoing is mail.cacert.org, isn't it? 22:51:39 Etienne bdmc: for the next 30 min, we could discuss the real important things and put all the needed motions in the vote bot (7 days), so we will have decisons to act next thursday. 22:51:52 bdmc Etienne: Normally, all mail to bmccullough@cacert.org is automatically forwarded to my main mailbox. 22:52:41 I guess that we could do that. I am concerned that nobody else is contributing. 22:54:30 bdmc egal: Thunderbird doesn't seem to want to configure itself with "bmccullough" and "mail.cacert.org." Can you think of what I am missing? 22:54:43 Etienne And if you have some issues with the login, write me an email and I can do proxy votes. Or tell it here (If you don't mind) 22:56:26 bdmc I don't get a login prompt at all. I get a prompt for which certificate I want to use, which I answer with "bmccullough@cacert.org," coming from CAcert, of course, so the e-mail address is correct, but I don't get the active motion site. 22:56:58 I am willing to vote Aye on the 19th and the 26th. 22:58:29 bdmc Etienne: That certificate is perhaps a month old, but that shouldn't matter, should it? 22:58:34 Etienne OK, done. Start with 2.1.1. ? or 2.2.2. 22:59:10 bdmc: ask JanDD, I don not know, He is the creator and the maintainer. 23:00:26 bdmc I set up Thunderbird successfully on my laptop, I just thought that I would set it up now ( adding an account ) here on my main machine, but no success. I will look for that message on my laptop, later. 23:01:10 The numbering on the Agenda is weird. What is the title of the item you are asking for? 23:02:05 dops Regarding mail: I connect to community.cacert.org. 23:02:12 Etienne New members or People proposed to help managing 23:02:59 bdmc dops: Thank you. I will try that. 23:03:13 Etienne: How about new members, that one should be easy. 23:03:37 Etienne Should I do 3 motions? 23:04:06 bdmc Certainly. Each person is unique. 23:04:12 Etienne Dominik and Peter, we had some more information, Grégoire is an "old" community member from France. 23:04:24 bdmc dops: Thank you. That did it. I could have sworn that the mail server was mail. B-( 23:05:05 dops bdmc: Facing to the external world, yes. 23:05:07 bdmc Etienne: Mark me as Aye for each. 23:05:23 Etienne OK. 23:05:42 bdmc dops: And here I thought that I was external. Nice to know! 23:07:04 Etienne Now, the question, who is helping, escorting, coach people who wants to help *managing and *finances? 23:07:31 bdmc Etienne: I found your messages! For some reason they didn't get passed on to me. 23:07:36 Etienne Maybe we need the others for that question. 23:07:51 bdmc I have been asking that question ever since the 360k! 23:08:47 Etienne bdmc: Good: Maybe you can write to this people after your other meeting CC or BCC to me (eruedin @ c.o.) and I will step in 24-48 h later? 23:08:49 bdmc Gero has been trying to help with Systems Administrators, and perhaps others, in JanDD's absence. 23:09:40 OK. Who should we target. We are talking about Team Leads and Senior people who can guide new members, correct? 23:09:45 Etienne I do it for OrgA. Sometimes a mail to all, sometimes 1:1... 23:09:53 yes 23:10:20 bdmc OK. So let's talk about a list. The headings that I have are: 23:10:26 Etienne guide, motivate, coach 23:10:43 bdmc Critical Team -- I see Dirk offering to help there. 23:11:02 ( along with Wytze, to some extent ) 23:11:16 Support -- Dirk again? 23:13:08 egal as we got feedback from ted, that karl-heinz ABC is passed (ruling has only to be written), he can take my support-seat ... (after training) 23:13:38 bdmc OK. Do all of the Support people have to have ABC? 23:13:52 Etienne To tell you the truth: Making support appealing to people, leading them there step by step... I don't think that's Dirks thing - unless we have phone numbers and he can call them. 23:14:01 ABC: Triage not, Support yes. 23:14:10 egal yep ... support, critical and software-assessment ... 23:14:27 infra, triage, tester/coder doesn't need an ABC 23:14:48 bdmc That was what I thought I understood. So we start people off with triage ( and perhaps initial response ), and then move them on as they prove themselves. 23:15:07 egal initial idea was to "level up" from infra/tester/coder/triage to critical/software-assessment/support 23:15:16 bdmc But, again, who introduces the new people to Triage. 23:15:31 egal in theory: joost ... ;-) 23:15:33 bdmc ( I keep losing "?" these days. ) 23:16:06 OK. We need to add him to our discussions. ( and to the "new sys admin volunteers" mailing list ) 23:16:40 Etienne bdmc, egal will try to get Joost for Crit Team as local member. 23:16:52 bdmc Anything else for new Support volunteers? 23:17:13 Good point. Can he do both? 23:17:31 Not permanently, but to get new people started? 23:17:41 Etienne Can he or is he willing to? 23:17:49 bdmc Yes. 23:18:04 Etienne egal, can you discuss this tomorrow or on sunday? 23:19:52 bdmc OK, next is Arbitration. I haven't been involved with this. 23:20:26 Ted? Although he is involved with Developers. 23:20:29 Etienne Me neither. 23:21:46 bdmc Next, Infrastructure. 23:22:06 dops: are you willing to take a stronger role here, if we can talk to JanDD? 23:22:19 Etienne For critical team, I will to two motions, one for Mark (Nr. 2) and one for Dirk/Joost (assist at hand over and step in on an interim base). ABC start when ready again. 23:22:47 bdmc Good. Put me down as Aye for each. 23:22:53 egal it's my plan to talk to joost about critical and support ... ;-) 23:22:55 Etienne OK 23:23:04 egal why mark? 23:23:07 bdmc egal: Thank you. 23:23:17 egal (as he doesn't have an ABC) 23:23:55 ABCs should be trigged by teamleads ... not by board ... ;-) 23:24:06 (means: by wytze, joost or me) 23:24:06 bdmc He was on our original ( post 360k ) list that we presented to Wytze. That was before we knew about your offer. 23:24:09 Etienne egal, board started a recruiting process for critical team and Mark is the first one of them. 23:25:03 egal well ... it's only following our workflow ... no mistrust in mark ... ;-) 23:25:19 (mark is a valuable board member at secure-u ... ;-) ) 23:25:40 bdmc We weren't trying to bypass ABC, we were just running out of options. 23:25:59 ( and time ) 23:26:30 Etienne If we wait until we have ABC first, we will have no Crit, no Support, no .... no... etc. Board did some background check,not arbitrated of course, but as we can propose the candidates with peace of conscience to arbitration to start the ABC as soon as it is back. 23:26:45 bdmc If you really want to hold Mark until an ABC can be performed, and you are volunteering to take over Critical Team, fine. 23:27:35 Etienne (Mark is in the #CAcert channel tonight) 23:28:11 bdmc Also, if you have any knowledge that indicates that he would not pass the ABC, then that would also be a good thing to know. 23:28:19 egal hm ... i exchanged some mails with mark in the last days ... if joost has no time ... maybe i plan a visit in arnhem this weekend ... ;-) 23:28:52 Etienne oh, a foreground check! 23:28:57 bdmc B-) 23:29:00 egal from my POV he should pass an ABC ... (but i'm not the arbitrator, who may pick up the case ... ;-) ) 23:29:14 Etienne of course not, no one of us. 23:29:29 egal in the last some minutes ... is @bdmc aware of the donations within the last month? 23:29:47 bdmc Do either of you think that we should invite him to join us here? 23:30:05 egal maybe not now, but for the next meeting ... 23:30:05 bdmc egal: You mean the Paypal ones, or the secure-u ones? 23:30:10 egal general ... ;-) 23:30:54 bdmc I know that, fortunately, a lot of money has come in, and, consequently, our Treasurer has paid bills that we didn't expect him to. 23:31:10 I don't have any real numbers. 23:31:11 dops bdmc: I can take a stronger role if JanDD agrees. Don't know why he appears so silent - if he has concerns he should have (or take) a chance to discuss. (But again so that all are aware: I'm not a meber of the infrastructure team.) 23:31:47 bdmc Thank you. Do you know anybody who could be a "trainer" in Jan's place? 23:32:30 I am concerned that we are being silent with our new volunteers, and I am worried that they will start disappearing again. 23:32:48 ( 90 minutes ) 23:34:02 bdmc One question that I don't expect anybody here to answer, but I can hope. Does anybody know the Wiki page that shows the Job Descriptions? I think that somebody recently either wrote or revised such a page, but I can't find the announcement. 23:34:11 Etienne I think Jan overworked a bit at the beginning of September. At one point he also made it clear that he cannot/does not want to take on more tasks. I think we must clearly respect that. I am very happy about what he has been doing for years and don't want to lose him. 23:34:17 dops Me too. On the devel list I didn't see noteworthy responses from new subscribers. 23:35:09 bdmc There was some recent talk about the key generating process. I don't remember what else. Somebody talked about setting them to testing. 23:36:27 bdmc Etienne: I completely agree. The problem is that we have too few people doing too many critical tasks, like Jan, and Dirk, and Wytze, and Ted, and you. 23:36:49 egal ... maybe dops can take some infra-system from my site ... so he can assist jandd for wiki/blog/...... ;-) 23:36:52 Etienne As with , you would have to address people directly about individual problems. What fits. That's probably the most effective. 23:37:32 bdmc Agreed. Unless they know what is needed, there is nothing to do. 23:37:36 dops Would be good if Jan could state how he like things to get done. I also don't want to loose him, so it should important to know and respect his ideas. 23:38:10 Etienne So nobody commits themselves to a team or something, but to a single task - and can grow into the team. 23:38:38 Wasn't there one or two PHP specialists? 23:39:03 bdmc When we had 75 ( or so ) people volunteer for Systems Administration, that was a lot to handle all at once. 23:39:51 Etienne: There were several people with various talents. I have wanted to get back to Development, but this 360K has been rather overwhelming. 23:39:53 Etienne Who has the best overview in the bug tracker? 23:40:06 bdmc ?? 23:40:18 How do you mean? 23:40:32 egal tasks to be done? ... ted 23:40:33 bdmc Ted manages it, if that is what you are asking. 23:40:45 Etienne bdmc: even if you can contact this talents one by one in the next weeks. I think this is a good idea. 23:41:07 * egal being more of less currently more admin instead of developer 23:41:42 bdmc Etienne: There are several ideas around right now, so I don't know which one you are talking about. 23:42:23 ( 3 minutes ) 23:42:33 Etienne bdmc: even if you can contact this talents one by one in the next weeks. I think this is a good idea. 23:43:15 OK: Net meeting: 17 or 24? 23:43:30 What about remote crit team members? Any names? 23:43:40 bdmc Sorry. "this talents" I was talking about Systems Administrators, dops mentioned developers and Infrastructure, we mentioned Arbitration, and we haven't talked about several other things. 23:43:53 I vote for the 17th. 23:44:09 Etienne OK, will send the invitation. 23:44:21 bdmc Yes, if you remember, we submitted two local and three or four remote members to Wytze. 23:44:46 We have perhaps half a dozen others that we could offer to Dirk. 23:44:49 Etienne Thank you to dops, egal and bdmc for beeing with us and working for a bright future of CAcert. 23:45:26 Keep them in your mind, bdmc. 23:45:27 bdmc Happy to make some progress. 23:45:50 I have a spreadsheet that we prepared from the volunteer list. 23:45:51 Etienne Good, bye, bdmc and happy next meeting! 23:46:17 bdmc Good night all! See you next time, and via e-mail. 23:46:45 Etienne (the president has another meeting that started just one minute ago) 23:56:55 ← bdmc has quit (Quit: leaving) 00:17:03