GuKKDevel ~GuKKDevel_log @ChanServ bdmc decay dirk_on_server egal enyc Etienne FD nb nemunaire SkarmoutsosV Skeeper ynazarov [NickServ] Welcome to CAcert, Etienne! Here on CAcert, we provide services to enable the registration of nicknames and channels! For details, type /msg NickServ help and /msg ChanServ help. 20:52:51 → Etienne has joined 20:58:44 → Peter has joined 21:00:19 Etienne Good morning, Peter! 21:00:46 Peter Good morning Etienne 21:01:44 Slight cloud this morning. Perfect weather for a walk along the beach. 21:03:21 Etienne Great! Last week, I was in the mountains. -10°C in the morning, +4°C in the afternoon, plenty of sun (and some snow). 21:05:14 Peter Brrrrr. 21:06:05 → FD has joined 21:06:55 ← FD has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 21:07:21 Etienne not to cold. If there were no wind in the afternoon, I went out without a cap and gloves. 21:08:51 → FD has joined 21:10:00 Etienne Hello Frédéric (FD) 21:10:30 FD Bonsoir Etienne, 21:10:54 Good evening / good morning everybody. 21:11:02 Etienne Would one of you, Peter or FD take chair? 21:11:23 https://wiki.cacert.org/Brain/CAcertInc/Committee/MeetingAgendasAndMinutes/2019-02-28 21:12:35 Etienne Well, let's start! I open hereby this meeting. 21:12:40 FD Would you mean that we are three on board ? 21:12:57 Etienne Yes, we are three, we have a quorum. 21:13:24 FD Fine. 21:13:26 Etienne The secretary will write the minutes. 21:13:39 Is there a time limit for on of us? 21:13:51 Peter 9 21:14:13 FD On my side, no time limit 21:14:21 Peter That would be 22:00 for you 21:14:29 Etienne Peter: this is in about 1 3/4 hours? 21:14:39 Peter Yes 21:15:20 Etienne OK. I didn't notice items on the mailing lists to include, have you? 21:15:36 FD I have not. 21:16:15 Etienne 2. Business 21:16:24 1. Future 21:16:45 What about the strategy? Have you some news, Peter? 21:17:05 Peter No news 21:18:05 Etienne I made one or two leaflets (draft) and sent them Brian. Should I send a copy to you too? 21:18:18 Peter Yes 21:19:14 → bdmc has joined 21:19:27 Etienne OK. What about the 46 ideas? What did we (each of us) the last month to find some funds? 21:19:43 bdmc I apologise for my tardiness. I was out working, and wasn't able to get here in time. 21:20:03 FD Good morning Brian ! 21:20:04 Etienne Hello bdmc, you can take over, we are at 2.1.1.2 open and new enquiries 21:20:17 and we forgot to vote the minutes of the last meeting. 21:20:33 https://wiki.cacert.org/Brain/CAcertInc/Committee/MeetingAgendasAndMinutes/2019-02-28 21:20:46 bdmc Thank you, Etienne. I need a couple of minutes -- way ahead of me. 21:21:30 OK, does anybody else have a time limit? 21:21:39 Peter I looked at learning about social media options and the person I know, who is an expert, has stopped the training for a few months. 21:22:09 bdmc Isn't that always the way? Just when we want something, it disappears. 21:22:45 Has anybody else even looked at the list? I sent out an e-mail message to us, but got no responses. 21:23:08 FD Yes I did. 21:23:29 bdmc Sorry. I hadn't read my Agenda yet. 21:23:38 Etienne With alkas I prepared a press conference/press communiqué (German English Czech) for the introduction of Czech CATS. Implementation in March with the PR Officer. (Not sent to the mail list) 21:23:40 bdmc FD: would you like to comment. 21:24:24 FD I went ahead with the Core Initiative's grant. 21:24:24 bdmc FD: So you are talking about getting more members of CAcert, at least the Community? 21:24:48 Thank you. How much was that for? 21:25:15 Peter I also checked the Linux Aus site to see if they reopened grants. No mention of 2019 yet. 21:25:47 bdmc Until we get the paperwork that they asked for, I haven't bothered to approach them again. 21:26:07 FD Well, it has been supporting very much Let's Encrypt and OpenSSL in the past. 21:26:47 I am talking about Core Initiative, which is basically, as far as I understand, an extension of the Linux Foundation. 21:27:07 Etienne bdmc, I talked just some minutes ago with Peter about the leaflets I sent you to comment. He is willing too have a look, he to. Maybe, it helps your working group for the strategy? 21:27:13 bdmc Peter: When I asked previously, they said that we needed a Strategic Plan, complete with dates, dollars, and supporting documentation, before they would consider a grant. 21:27:42 FD: Yes, I understood. Do you have any idea of the value? 21:28:38 Etienne Furthermore, this leaflets could be used by each of us, while asking some smaller grants by institutions of the list of 46. 21:28:48 FD So, I got in touch with Jenessa Petersen, who describes herself as a Fundraising Specialist at Let's Encrypt. 21:28:48 bdmc Etienne: When was that? I don't remember, but I probably did see them. ( I looked at my e-mail logs a few days ago, and my server receives approximately 1800 e-mail messages every day, most of them for me. ) 21:28:50 Peter Mission statement: Help the online world identify 21:29:52 bdmc Peter: Actually, I like that. Perhaps a bit more verbose, but we can add things outside the Mission Statement to do that, if this works. 21:30:17 Peter Advertising donations: good example: https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3724 21:30:30 The Linux Mint example is monthly 21:30:45 Etienne bdmc: Subject: CAcert future brochure / Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2019 00:54:52 +0100 21:31:18 bdmc I will go back and hunt for that, soon. 21:31:44 Peter TED mission statement: Spreading Ideas 21:31:49 Short is good 21:32:15 bdmc Agreed. 21:32:36 As long as it is understandable and relevant. 21:32:54 Describes US sufficiently. 21:33:25 Peter: The LinuxMint thing is a "donate" button on the web site, correct? 21:34:44 Etienne No, it is a monthly news letter with info about donations and new functions, etc. 21:35:30 bdmc Yes, the blog is, but they are talking about receiving money. 21:35:56 Etienne x donators, y $ in december 21:36:34 bdmc But where do these donations come from. Letters in the mail, without any advertising? 21:37:56 Etienne Open the link and scroll down. You will find sponsors and donators with flags... and a link for donations at the end. 21:38:08 Peter There is a donate button on the home page 21:38:19 https://linuxmint.com/ 21:39:28 Peter They also have Patreon for an automatic monthly donation 21:39:37 bdmc I thought that there must be. However, on the blog page, they do advertise through Patreon, too. I don't remember us ever considering that. 21:40:35 Etienne I never heart about this before. Who will have a look and maybe make a proposition the next meeting? 21:40:38 bdmc Should we add it to the Ideas page, or start working on it now? 21:41:18 Let me take a few minutes, and see what is required for Patreon. I think of it for artists, but maybe it is broader that that. 21:41:54 I will make myself a note and report before Monday. 21:43:22 bdmc OK. Let's talk about Mission Statement for a few minutes. 21:43:52 The proposal from Peter was: Help the online world identify. 21:44:08 I remember that we had other suggestions, too. 21:45:44 bdmc Does anybody want to offer other alternatives? The Mission Statement is our basic Core. Who we are and why we exist. 21:46:30 FD I have no voice on that as I did not participate to the writing of it. 21:47:08 bdmc Everybody here has a voice. That's why I am asking. 21:47:11 Etienne This sounds good for me. I had to read it twice, but it is clear and broad, so we ar not fixed on only one prodcuct (f.eg. ssl). 21:49:04 bdmc FD: Our existing Mission Statement was written about 15 years ago, so it is time to refresh it. 21:50:06 bdmc The next step, at least as far as Linux Australia is concerned, is to develop a plan to go forward. 21:50:40 It may not cover everything, but it should cover those things that we want ( or NEED ) to accomplish to enable CAcert to survive, and even grow. 21:51:42 bdmc Peter: can we exchange e-mail on this subject, or should we include everybody here by using Board Private? 21:52:01 I lean towards the latter. 21:52:47 Etienne I suggest you two push there. But on Board Private. So we can all read along and contribute something if needed. 21:53:46 bdmc I think that everybody has things to contribute, but we will get started. ( I am somewhat distracted with trying to find work and a new home, but I will do my best. ) 21:53:59 Etienne May I suggest that the aim is to have a draft available by 21 March? 21:54:13 Peter Email is better for me unless everyone wants to chat at 24:00 Euro time. 21:55:06 bdmc Peter: Of course that is a reasonable time for me, but.... B-) Yes, we will get this rolling. 21:57:11 bdmc All right, moving on to Item 2.1.3. I think that three or more of us, on at least three continents, tried out a new encrypted e-mail tool that Etienne found. I found that it was a bit cumbersome, but usable. 21:57:13 egal i suggest to add PR (alexander) to this mail/letter/... as the PR-team should present this at a later date ... 21:57:44 bdmc egal: Yes, if they are not on Board Private, which I expect that they aren't. 21:58:19 Etienne: would you please create an "address list" of everybody who should be included in the Strategic Plan Working Group? 21:58:51 ( not now, perhaps tomorrow? ) 21:59:14 Etienne yes, I will (board, pr, +?) 22:00:04 bdmc Perhaps egal if he isn't still on Board Private. ( dops, Karl-Heinz, Ted??? ) 22:00:53 Etienne as a resumee: the complete active community ;-) 22:01:07 bdmc B-) 22:01:21 You can decide. 22:01:39 OK, back to 2.1.3. Any reports on this tool? 22:03:14 Etienne The question is: If you create your key there, couldn't it be signed by CAcert? If I find time in the coming weeks, I will write to them once. They also speak German. That makes it easier. 22:03:57 bdmc Thank you. I don't remember, it was so long ago. Oh, yes. They provided the key, didn't they? 22:04:10 OK, next, Money! 22:04:21 Etienne If I could just settle the new strategy, that would leave a better impression of course. 22:04:22 bdmc I am going to start with the last. 22:04:50 Item 2.2.3. Membership Invoices. Any progress? 22:06:09 Etienne The treasurer wanted to send it December 28th, the January 28th, since the, I have no news. FD, are there other possibilities to get in touch with the treasurer (snail mail, telephone, mobile phone, text essage = SMS, or ....?)? 22:08:45 FD I am afraid I do not have the phone number of Frederic. I may double check it. However, it has to be said that the Paris group dissolved, at least it is the information which I received from Meetup. 22:10:02 FD Frederic also wrote to me a few weeks ago, that he wanted to get in touch with you Etienne, with regard to CACert's future. Should I understand that he did not yet ? 22:10:13 bdmc Perhaps one of the other old members of the Paris group? 22:10:41 FD I may have a contact by phone with Alain. 22:11:09 Etienne Pierre Olivier updated the wiki ten days ago. 22:11:40 But in fact, there are no dates published for 2019 until now. 22:14:28 bdmc That's too bad. Let's try and get in contact as soon as possible, and talk in Board Private about the results of that contact. 22:14:50 OK, next. Item 2.2.1 -- the Bank Account. Any progress here? 22:15:48 Etienne Peter? 22:16:18 Peter Between a grandchild and building a house, I forgot about the Westpac task. 22:17:13 Etienne Don't worry. I life between a child and renovating a house... Maybe you can do it in March? 22:17:35 bdmc Yes, you have been busy. 22:18:48 Peter Next week the building should be finished. 22:18:57 Etienne May I ask, how old your grandchild is? 22:19:04 bdmc That will be a relief, won't it? 22:20:00 I would like to be done in the next 10 minutes, but won't be a problem if not. 22:20:09 Peter 1. Started walking last month. Walks about as fast as I run. 22:20:27 bdmc Item 2.3.1 -- Bug 1305 22:21:07 Karl-Heinz has had machine problems, so I have agreed to address the last couple of issues that Software Development came up with. That should be done in the next few days. 22:21:59 Item 2.3.3 -- Bug 1260 and friends. I got stalled with "Life," but hope to have that done soon. 22:22:25 Item 2.4 -- Anything from you, FD? 22:23:20 FD I focused on the Core Infrastructure Initiative grant, and did nothing on "Dummies". I will do. 22:23:50 egal regarding software_ there was the "email-"patch, which wet productive some days ago .. 22:24:06 saves a lot of work on support site ... ;-) 22:24:43 bdmc egal: Thank you. I saw the note about that, but wasn't familiar with that topic. 22:24:48 egal etienne wrote a small blog-articla about it ... 22:25:22 bdmc OK. Unless anybody has any objections, speak now or forever...., it's Question Time. 22:25:23 Etienne well, I just adapted the mail from wytze. 22:26:22 bdmc Just looked at that blog post, and I understand now, what the issue was. I wasn't reading well, before. 22:26:58 Etienne We have two dates remaining. Should we add some more, that Peter has better planning stability? 22:27:48 FD Question Time : what's about meeting over a voice channel next time, such as Whatsapp conference ? 22:28:02 bdmc Do we want to try for one earlier than the 21st of March? 22:28:15 egal whatsapp ?????? really? 22:28:27 bdmc I would rather not, since this machine ( development machine ) has no audio of any sort. 22:28:32 Peter How do we handle language with a voice conference? 22:28:42 egal not everybody has this spy-software installed ... 22:29:38 bdmc I have a friend in India who uses it, because it is a LOT cheaper than telephone, but I really resist. I will use the text message version, not voice. I also agree with egal. 22:29:49 egal (as an open CA we should enable everybody to take part at meetings ... even if it is anonymously or via a webinterface) 22:30:48 FD Question Time : what's about meeting over a voice channel next time, such as a regular Web RTC conference ? 22:31:22 egal but ... there are other messengers, who have the possibility for voice-chats or better text-chats (e.g. telegram, threema, skype, slack, hangouts) 22:32:05 bdmc My objection to a voice-only channel is the total lack of record-keeping. Here we have a natural "minute-keeper." 22:32:45 Peter How does voice handle URLs? 22:33:10 Speaking of URLs: As a non profit, has anyone looked at https://www.globalgiving.org/ 22:33:20 egal for software we used a voice-server some years ago ... and (afaik) even arbitrationused it ... 22:33:34 bdmc Could we please take this to a mailing list and discuss it for future use? ( the voice proposal ) 22:33:54 egal: are you able to read and write to Board Private? 22:34:09 Etienne I understand FD, when he want a voice conference. On the other hand, by writing, we are probabely more efficient and we have a log file for the minutes. 22:34:24 No, egal is no more on board private 22:34:38 egal in the last weeks/months usually the secure-u meeting transforms itself into a software-meeting (we usually use voice, if it's only ted an me) 22:35:14 Etienne Probably meetings with 2 or 3 people are better for voice. 22:35:38 (as egal wrote above or FD an I did in the past) 22:35:51 bdmc FD: I know that you have proposed WhatsApp. Do you have any Open Source alternatives that you would like to offer? 22:36:15 FD I am keen with appear.in 22:36:20 egal jabber? ;-) 22:36:38 Peter Signal 22:37:00 bdmc That is actually a research project for next meeting. If you want to propose a tool other than IRC, please send it, either directly to secretary@cacert.org, for inclusion in the minutes, or the Board Mailing List. 22:37:21 FD It is a clean Web RTC conference call service, HTML5 native, which does not require any additional plug-in. It is free. 22:37:24 egal the customer i work for uses skype ... there we have a voice-chat together with text-chat ... 22:38:07 bdmc I don't want to decide anything now, so let us add this to next month's agenda, and discuss. 22:38:37 Anything involving audio, I would have to use a different machine. 22:39:00 egal (as some of me indian colleges have a funny understanding of talking and understanding "english" the text-chat helps a lot) 22:39:13 bdmc B-) 22:39:36 Etienne It was question for a meeting before 21. Is this needed or do we need 20 days to work and show great steps forward? 22:39:54 bdmc OK, Etienne asked this earlier. Is March 21st ( 22nd for you, Peter and Peter Nunn ) good for everybody? Earlier, later? 22:40:21 egal thursday again? 22:40:43 Etienne Are you not happy with thursday? 22:40:56 bdmc I guess so. That way it doesn't conflict with the Development Group meetings ( if they happen ). 22:41:12 egal only a question ... ;-) 22:41:21 Etienne Please 22:41:42 bdmc Anybody else? 22:41:55 egal bdmc: according the development-meeting ... can you please announce them like the board-meetings are announced? 22:42:08 FD 21st of March is fine for me. 22:42:24 Peter Good for me 22:42:36 Etienne Any other questions? 22:42:36 bdmc egal: I'm confused about those, too. Let me get with Ted, and we will get something definite. 22:43:20 Etienne When we started, we hurried up with the preliminaries and forgot this topic: https://wiki.cacert.org/Brain/CAcertInc/Committee/MeetingAgendasAndMinutes/2019-02-07#Minutes 22:43:31 bdmc Carry it over? 22:44:54 bdmc I would like to declare this meeting adjourned. We will meet again on the evening of March 21st. 22:44:59 Etienne When you have a look, we can vote in two minutes, before Peter will leave for a walk... 22:45:30 bdmc Shall I withdraw that, or carry this item forward? We have done that previously. 22:47:27 bdmc Etienne? 22:47:44 Etienne bdmc, please let's vote or close the meeting. I woould just vote. 30 seconds. 22:48:08 bdmc OK, ignore my adjournment announcement. 22:48:35 Etienne I move to ccept the minutes of the meeting of February 7th this year. 22:48:37 bdmc Everyone please examine the Minutes of the meeting of February 7th. 22:49:32 Peter Aye 22:49:37 Etienne abs 22:49:39 bdmc Aye 22:49:47 FD Is it the right time to say "I second" ? 22:49:57 Etienne yes, FD, of course 22:50:00 bdmc You have just done so. 22:50:21 ← SkarmoutsosV has quit (Connection closed) 22:50:46 FD Sorry to say that the difference between "I second" and "Yes/Aye" is unclear for me. 22:51:21 bdmc They are both needed. Second is part of "I move." "Yes/Aye and Nay" are part of the vote. 22:51:44 Etienne A ask to vote something. B seconds / validate this. Then all (A, B, c, D, ....) will say aye or naye or abstain. 22:52:14 bdmc The vote passes. 22:52:42 We are done until the 21st. 22:52:48 Thank you all! 22:52:50 Etienne Oh Peter, one year old! That brings back great memories. Two days before the 1st birthday my boy stood in the workshop and handled wood scraps, while I built his birthday present: A post motor coach with which he still likes to play today. But now it is black-yellow instead of cream-yellow, after 4 years... Love leaves traces. 22:52:51 FD Does it mean that we do not vote before someone "seconds" the move ? Or "seconding" is just optional ? 22:53:00 Etienne Enjoy your walk on the beach, Peter! 22:53:32 bdmc FD: Technically, the second should come before any voting, but we are flexible, some times! 22:53:56 Etienne If we're formal, we can't vote until someone has seconded. 22:54:01 bdmc As long as all of the parts exist, we have been known to make errors in sequence. 22:54:25 FD Sure, fine. 22:54:31 bdmc We are always that formal for the Annual General Meeting. Other times.... 22:54:55 Etienne In everyday life it also depends on whether it is a controversial template or a formality. 22:54:57 bdmc Good Night all ( except Peter. Have a Good Day! ) 22:55:13 Peter Goodbye Good night 22:55:19 ← Peter has quit (Quit: Leaving) 22:55:27 Etienne Good night! 22:56:29 FD @egal: Dirk, in the beginning of March, may you have time to process my request for password recovery through assurance ? 23:00:42 egal yep ... 23:04:08 FD Thank you ! 22:14:03 Etienne Alain voulait relire la traduction CATS. Si tu l'appelles, tu peux l'en remercier et lui demander où il en est déjà. C'est une tâche sans limite de temps, mais si c'est fait, nous pourrions faire un peu de publicité dans l'hexagone. 22:14:31 FD Très bien. 22:15:13 Etienne Nous pouvons reprendre le programme czech... 22:15:28 FD C'est embêtant que Frédéric n'ai pas pris contact avec toi, il voulait le faire depuis quelques semaines, c'est dommage que ça dure autant.