Log of Board-meeting 2018-08-17-20:00 UTC

Timestamp all UTC +02:00 
{{{
17.08.2018 [22:01:16] <bdmc> Anybody home?
17.08.2018 [22:01:36] <bdmc> Good evening, Etienne.
17.08.2018 [22:01:48] <Etienne> Hello bdmc
17.08.2018 [22:02:08] <Etienne> I'am sorry, I will be ready in one minute.
17.08.2018 [22:02:20] <bdmc> No rush.  Nobody else is answering.
17.08.2018 [22:02:38] <egal> yep ... being at home ... ;-)
17.08.2018 [22:02:44] <bdmc> B-)
17.08.2018 [22:04:21] <Etienne> So, now I am really here; hello egal!
17.08.2018 [22:05:07] <bdmc> I see ~GuKKDevel, frederic, nb and nemunaire, but no talking.
17.08.2018 [22:06:26] <Etienne> Well, but if frederic is here, even nothing saying, we have a quorum!
17.08.2018 [22:06:35] <bdmc> B-)
17.08.2018 [22:06:59] <bdmc> That might be pushing the limits a bit, but I will accept that.
17.08.2018 [22:07:04] <bdmc> Shall we go?
17.08.2018 [22:07:08] <egal> well ... did we had a quorum in the past when my server was online, but i wasn't at my keyboard?
17.08.2018 [22:07:14] <Etienne> https://wiki.cacert.org/Brain/CAcertInc/Committee/MeetingAgendasAndMinutes/2018-08-17
17.08.2018 [22:07:15] <egal> i don't think so ... ;-(
17.08.2018 [22:07:56] <Etienne> egal is not dirk_on_server
17.08.2018 [22:08:15] <bdmc> We could wait a couple more minutes, until XX:10, and see who shows up.
17.08.2018 [22:08:26] <egal> normally both machines should be online ... ;-)
17.08.2018 [22:09:05] <egal> egal on a machine in velbert (while me sitting somewhere else) ... and dirk_on_server somewhere on a server ... ;-) )
17.08.2018 [22:09:41] <bdmc> Being just after 16:00, I wonder whether nb is listening?
17.08.2018 [22:10:07] <Etienne> egal, saw you my e-mail on the team-list earlyer today?
17.08.2018 [22:10:19] <egal> of course ... ;-)
17.08.2018 [22:10:53] <bdmc> Well, let's get this thing rolling.   Welcome Peter, just in time!
17.08.2018 [22:11:14] <pnunn> Thanks. Was here 24 hours early, now late :)
17.08.2018 [22:11:32] <bdmc> Anybody else want to volunteer to prepare the minutes after we finish?
17.08.2018 [22:12:28] <bdmc> With just the three of us, we should be able to move through this quickly.  Shall we try for less than 1.5 hours?
17.08.2018 [22:12:53] <Etienne> I should it do, as I did not finish the minutes from june!
17.08.2018 [22:13:03] <bdmc> Thank you.
17.08.2018 [22:13:26] <pnunn> Is there only 3. Where is everyone else. We seem to have lost a few along the way.
17.08.2018 [22:13:47] <bdmc> Only three ( not counting egal ) are talking.
17.08.2018 [22:13:55] <pnunn> The other two Peters are MIA.
17.08.2018 [22:14:09] <egal> i'll be online for around one hour ... but will now go silent (until i should answer/write something ...)
17.08.2018 [22:14:36] <bdmc> I see minutes from July 26th.  Does anyone have any comments, or do I hear a motion to accept?
17.08.2018 [22:14:55] <pnunn> I move we accept
17.08.2018 [22:15:29] <bdmc> I will second.
17.08.2018 [22:15:42] <pnunn> aye
17.08.2018 [22:15:44] <bdmc> Shall we vote?
17.08.2018 [22:15:51] <bdmc> me too ( aye )
17.08.2018 [22:15:57] <Etienne> (you are voting)
17.08.2018 [22:16:03] <Etienne> abstain
17.08.2018 [22:16:07] <pnunn> Probably unnecessary :)
17.08.2018 [22:16:50] <bdmc> I don't think that I want to look at the minutes for June 21st.
17.08.2018 [22:17:18] <bdmc> Is there anything in Board Private or Board General that needs discussing?
17.08.2018 [22:17:50] <Etienne> I saw nothing the last five weeks on this lists.
17.08.2018 [22:18:11] <bdmc> OK.  Good enough.
17.08.2018 [22:18:58] <bdmc> I don't see any "actions from last meeting," although I seem to remember us taking on some tasks.
17.08.2018 [22:19:41] <bdmc> Moving on to Item 2.1.1 -- Public Officer
17.08.2018 [22:20:24] <Etienne> I am still on the way.
17.08.2018 [22:20:31] <bdmc> Thank you.
17.08.2018 [22:20:55] <bdmc> Item 2.2.2 -- AGM.   Has there been a public announcement, yet?
17.08.2018 [22:21:02] <Etienne> http://wiki.cacert.org/AGM/Next
17.08.2018 [22:21:24] <Etienne> There was a save the date, I think, and a blog post.
17.08.2018 [22:21:46] <bdmc> OK.  I forgot seeing the e-mail message.
17.08.2018 [22:22:02] <bdmc> frederic:  Are you here?
17.08.2018 [22:22:15] <Etienne> I check it. As the page (see link above) is no readyer as before, the invitation can be sent soon.
17.08.2018 [22:22:40] <Etienne> We have a lot of team reports (never had so much so early)!
17.08.2018 [22:22:55] <Etienne> We need a report from the president and
17.08.2018 [22:23:05] <bdmc> pnunn: Have you seen the AGM agenda?
17.08.2018 [22:23:18] <bdmc> ( Oh, NO!  not that )
17.08.2018 [22:23:43] <bdmc> Hmmm.  I will have to think on that.  When do you want it?  ( and when do you need it? )
17.08.2018 [22:23:47] <pnunn> No, not seen anything about the AGM yet, but not looked either.
17.08.2018 [22:24:03] <Etienne> I am just wondering, if we should ad a discussion (with no final vote) about the futute of CAcert.
17.08.2018 [22:24:11] <bdmc> Do you have our current agenda up?
17.08.2018 [22:24:17] <bdmc> There is a link there.
17.08.2018 [22:24:44] <bdmc> Etienne: I suspect that you are right.  I fear that I may be the last President of CAcert.
17.08.2018 [22:25:19] <Etienne> If the Inc members do not see any futute for CAcert, an SGM or AGM can be held in spring/early summer 2019.
17.08.2018 [22:25:39] <bdmc> egal: Thoughts?
17.08.2018 [22:25:48] <Etienne> A final discussion should not be taken by a few without a longer discussion.
17.08.2018 [22:26:19] <Etienne> (It was PD who wrote about this topic to the committee some weeks ago.)
17.08.2018 [22:26:32] <bdmc> I completely agree.  So far, we have two who have spoken up on that subject.  Out of what, 50 or 60?
17.08.2018 [22:26:52] <pnunn> There certainly doesn't seem to be a huge amount of enthusiasm by the general numbers does there? Demonstrated by today really.
17.08.2018 [22:27:08] <Etienne> Inc members: yes, community about 30 000 (real)
17.08.2018 [22:27:33] <bdmc> pnunn:  Yes, the silent majority.
17.08.2018 [22:27:47] <pnunn> Including those on the committee sadly.
17.08.2018 [22:28:16] <bdmc> Perhaps we should "enforce" an RSVP rule.
17.08.2018 [22:28:29] <bdmc> enforce, implement, whatever
17.08.2018 [22:28:56] <bdmc> I know that I just show up.
17.08.2018 [22:29:32] <Etienne> For committee members? inc members? community members?
17.08.2018 [22:29:47] <bdmc> Committee Members for Board Meetings.
17.08.2018 [22:29:56] <pnunn> Likewise when I'm not on a power station somewhere but this has been a while now since we have seen some members.
17.08.2018 [22:30:15] <bdmc> Agreed.
17.08.2018 [22:30:25] <pnunn> Anyway. May be a moot point shortly.
17.08.2018 [22:30:57] <bdmc> Etienne: would you like to "make up" the question for the AGM, or should we discuss it now?
17.08.2018 [22:31:34] <Etienne> Maybe pnunn's and bdmc's English is better than mine's.
17.08.2018 [22:31:51] <pnunn> Just trying to come up with something not too blunt.
17.08.2018 [22:32:04] <pnunn> Are we going for an open discussion then?
17.08.2018 [22:32:16] <bdmc> I agree.  Short and sweet, or long and involved?  ( the question )
17.08.2018 [22:32:18] <pnunn> What is the future of CACert and does it have one?
17.08.2018 [22:32:45] <bdmc> perhaps a bit of preamble, explaining the reason for the question?
17.08.2018 [22:34:03] <pnunn> The Board has been trying for the last 12 months to bring CAcert back from the dead, but the lack of funds and enthuasium drom members and community has led us to ask....
17.08.2018 [22:34:21] <pnunn> *from members
17.08.2018 [22:34:46] <Etienne> Some members believe that the time of CAcert is over. Should the board, together with the members and the community, continue with renewed vigour or prepare for dissolution?
17.08.2018 [22:34:46] <Etienne> Discussion. No vote on the dissolution. This can take place at an SGM or AGM 2019, if the discussion goes in this direction.
17.08.2018 [22:35:07] <bdmc> pnunn: That kind of fits with the direction that I was thinking.
17.08.2018 [22:35:08] <pnunn> Nice.
17.08.2018 [22:35:18] <pnunn> I like Etienne's better :) 
17.08.2018 [22:35:38] <pnunn> Less confrontational.
17.08.2018 [22:35:48] <bdmc> Well, that is the end of the paragraph.  After your preamble and question.
17.08.2018 [22:36:07] <pnunn> Oh OK. Use both.. guess that works.
17.08.2018 [22:36:37] <bdmc> We can modify your question slightly to indicate that it is asking for conversation, not just a yes or no answer.
17.08.2018 [22:36:52] <pnunn> OK, that works.
17.08.2018 [22:37:10] <Etienne> frederic should calcuate the last date until when the money from WESTPAC will be over (somewhere in 2019)
17.08.2018 [22:37:34] <pnunn> Good point. That is important.
17.08.2018 [22:38:42] <Etienne> something like a cash flow budget
17.08.2018 [22:39:23] <bdmc> something like: CAcert's Board has been trying for quite some time to help CAcert to survive, but the lack of funds and enthusiasm from both Inc members and the community prompts to ask whether the members at large feel that CAcert's time has passed.  more...
17.08.2018 [22:39:57] <pnunn> That sound good bdmc
17.08.2018 [22:40:22] <Etienne> very well.
17.08.2018 [22:40:27] <pnunn> The cash flow puts a hard timeline on the decision.
17.08.2018 [22:40:42] <bdmc> the more: We are asking for a discussion at the AGM to give the Board ( Committee?? ) guidance about CAcert's future.   If that discussion is overwhelmingly negative, then an SGM can be called for early in 2019.
17.08.2018 [22:41:13] <bdmc> ( hmmm.  Capitalise Community )
17.08.2018 [22:41:20] <egal> may i ask, if you got my status-mail about the PGP-wot?
17.08.2018 [22:41:38] <bdmc> Yes, I seem to remember seeing something.
17.08.2018 [22:42:47] <egal> our members should be aware, that there are only two WOT: GnuPGP (using the keyservers) and CAcert ...
17.08.2018 [22:43:06] <Etienne> egal, that is one reason, why I will avoid that someone ask to vote this year without a large and deep discussion.
17.08.2018 [22:43:48] <pnunn> Agreed, but without more input from the community we are going to struggle anyway.
17.08.2018 [22:44:32] <bdmc> egal: I hadn't thought of that, but yes, that is significant.
17.08.2018 [22:44:35] <Etienne> You remember also last meeting, as I was asking Alex-UK about how to send a e-mail to all community members? That is to have a large discussion, involving people no more so close, to maybe activate some of them, to get new forces.
17.08.2018 [22:44:51] <bdmc> I agree, Etienne.
17.08.2018 [22:45:12] <bdmc> egal: Have you had any success with the ABC question?
17.08.2018 [22:48:24] <bdmc> Etienne: do you want to discuss "the question" any more, or shall we move on?
17.08.2018 [22:48:56] <Etienne> We can move, as we will discuss the question in the future...
17.08.2018 [22:49:25] <bdmc> Let's do it in Board Private, so that we can get some movement before our next meeting.
17.08.2018 [22:49:42] <pnunn> Agreed.
17.08.2018 [22:50:13] <bdmc> Looking at the Agenda, it appers that our next item is 2.3.2 -- Bug 1417.  Peter?
17.08.2018 [22:51:03] <pnunn> Not here by the looks.
17.08.2018 [22:51:21] <bdmc> I thought that that was you.
17.08.2018 [22:51:32] <pnunn> Sadly no.. one of the other two :)
17.08.2018 [22:51:52] <bdmc> OK.  On to Item 2.4.1.1 -- me. 
17.08.2018 [22:52:58] <bdmc> I have heard nothing from my sub-committee since we agreed that it might be best to have an Australian submit the Grant Application.   Peter, was it you that was investigating membership in that organisation?
17.08.2018 [22:53:29] <pnunn> I didn't investigate it as such, I am a member though I believe.
17.08.2018 [22:53:45] <bdmc> On that other hand, as President of CAcert, I don't have a problem submitting the Application.
17.08.2018 [22:54:04] <bdmc> Should we attempt to move forward on this, or???
17.08.2018 [22:54:27] <pnunn> No, perhaps you sumbit and put my name on it as well as a member or something like that.
17.08.2018 [22:54:53] <bdmc> I know that the Drupal Association President, who is not an Australian, was successful in her bid.
17.08.2018 [22:55:27] <bdmc> pnunn: can we take this off line in the next couple ( few ) of days, and see what we can get moving?
17.08.2018 [22:55:39] <pnunn> Absolutely.
17.08.2018 [22:55:40] <Etienne> (I am a member to, with CAcert's Adress in Muriwubullah NSW)
17.08.2018 [22:55:50] <pnunn> Ahh ok.
17.08.2018 [22:55:55] <bdmc> B-)
17.08.2018 [22:55:56] <Etienne> as long as we have no mandate to dissolve inc, our endeavor must be to continue.
17.08.2018 [22:56:34] <pnunn> Sounds reasonable.
17.08.2018 [22:56:44] <bdmc> OK.  Let's get this done.  I seem to have ( temporarily? ) lost the Parisians.
17.08.2018 [22:57:13] <pnunn> I am not travelling next week Brian so should be around.
17.08.2018 [22:57:18] <bdmc> ( So, no news about the CAcert for Newbies book. )
17.08.2018 [22:57:32] <Etienne> As we move forward so quickly, I can write to Paris tonight in the president's second language.
17.08.2018 [22:58:24] <bdmc> Great.  I should be around in my time zone ( GMT - 4 ) from 07:00 - 23:00 for most of the next week or so.
17.08.2018 [22:58:49] <bdmc> Moving on.
17.08.2018 [22:59:15] <bdmc> The only thing that I see left is "when shall we three meet again?"  As the Scottish Play said.
17.08.2018 [22:59:36] <bdmc> Short time, long time?
17.08.2018 [22:59:36] <pnunn> :)
17.08.2018 [22:59:47] <Etienne> (4.1.2: who of us is member at Linux Australia?)
17.08.2018 [23:00:00] <bdmc> Sounds like both of you are.
17.08.2018 [23:00:12] <bdmc> I considered applying, but haven't.
17.08.2018 [23:00:16] <Etienne> bdmc, you applied too?
17.08.2018 [23:01:00] <Etienne> do it, it takes maybe two month until you are accepted.
17.08.2018 [23:01:14] <bdmc> OK.  It also looks like a good organisation.
17.08.2018 [23:01:51] <pnunn> They are pretty active.
17.08.2018 [23:03:06] <bdmc> OK.  I am also Treasurer for a Linux group ( Triangle Linux Users Group -- TriLUG.org ) here.
17.08.2018 [23:03:28] <bdmc> Anyway, back to Item 4.1
17.08.2018 [23:03:48] <Etienne> When did you last a talkk about CAcert at TrLUG?
17.08.2018 [23:04:26] <Etienne> bdmc, we have at least one member on the floor. do not forget the question time.
17.08.2018 [23:04:27] <bdmc> A few months ago.  We have had quite a few Assurers and "signing parties" over the years.
17.08.2018 [23:04:56] <bdmc> Oops.  Sorry about that.  New Questions, anybody?
17.08.2018 [23:05:15] <Etienne> great! That means, the agenda on the wiki shows not the reality ;-)
17.08.2018 [23:05:35] <Etienne> egal, any questions?
17.08.2018 [23:06:07] <bdmc> He seems to have disappeared.
17.08.2018 [23:09:38] <Etienne> pnunn, do you prefere friday morning or saturday morning?
17.08.2018 [23:10:06] <pnunn> Saturday will probably work best in the next few weeks as I will be travelling again soon.
17.08.2018 [23:10:26] <pnunn> As long as I remember it Saturday and not Friday. Getting up early two days in a row is going to kill me :)
17.08.2018 [23:10:40] <bdmc> I know the feeling!
17.08.2018 [23:11:23] <bdmc> I had to be at work at 07:00 all three days two weekends ago, and also last Friday.
17.08.2018 [23:11:48] <Etienne> So, what about friday 31-08-2018? or friday 07-09-2018 (Australia: sat 01-09 or sat 08-09)?
17.08.2018 [23:12:16] <Etienne> (I take the coach every morning at 6:37 to at work at 7:12)
17.08.2018 [23:12:29] <bdmc> Either one are good for me.
17.08.2018 [23:12:47] <pnunn> Either work for me. Let's go for the 8th? (nasty time to be up.. but I'm usually still on a keyboard at 1am).
17.08.2018 [23:13:07] <bdmc> is 7:12 just because that's when you get there, or is it when you are "expected?"
17.08.2018 [23:13:36] <bdmc> pnunn: I know about those days.  I was up until after 3, this morning.
17.08.2018 [23:14:00] <Etienne> I am expected at 7:45, but before I do all the little things that I have never time to do it during the day.
17.08.2018 [23:14:28] <egal> both days will work for me ... ;-)
17.08.2018 [23:14:32] <egal> (hopefully ... ;-))
17.08.2018 [23:14:36] <bdmc> I understand.  When I am working in a client's office, I enjoy the time after 17:00, when the phones stop ringing.
17.08.2018 [23:15:03] <Etienne> Friday 7. Sept 20:00 GMT = Sat 8. Sept early morning.
17.08.2018 [23:15:12] <pnunn> Most sysadmin stuff can't be done during business hours.
17.08.2018 [23:15:23] <pnunn> Sounds good Etienne.
17.08.2018 [23:15:26] <bdmc> Not the 31st?
17.08.2018 [23:15:43] <bdmc> OK.  On my calendar.
17.08.2018 [23:15:45] <pnunn> Is there any point making it a week earlier?
17.08.2018 [23:15:57] <bdmc> Probably not.
17.08.2018 [23:16:01] <pnunn> I don't mind. I enjoy chatting to you two :)
17.08.2018 [23:16:16] <bdmc> Especially if we are going to get some work done via e-mail.
17.08.2018 [23:16:24] <pnunn> Indeed.
17.08.2018 [23:17:26] <bdmc> I will talk to you three ( and perhaps more ) in three weeks.
17.08.2018 [23:17:47] <pnunn> Just sent you a pm with an alternative email if you didn't see it Brian.
17.08.2018 [23:17:52] <Etienne> This will be a pleasure to me.
17.08.2018 [23:17:59] <pnunn> :)
17.08.2018 [23:18:18] <pnunn> Good night/evening gentlemen. Have a good weekend.
17.08.2018 [23:18:27] <bdmc> Well.  We have had one of our shortest meetings in a long time.
17.08.2018 [23:18:37] <bdmc> I hearby call this meeting closed.
17.08.2018 [23:18:47] <pnunn> Good job.
17.08.2018 [23:18:51] <Etienne> Carpe diem, pnunn, enyoj your day
17.08.2018 [23:19:16] <pnunn> Might go back to bed.. :) Probably not.
17.08.2018 [23:19:18] <bdmc> And to all three of you.
17.08.2018 [23:19:29] <pnunn> Bye.
17.08.2018 [23:19:41] <Etienne> Good by, bdmc, pnunn, egal
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