Log of Board-meeting 2018-05-03-20:00 UTC

Timestamp all UTC +02:00 
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03.05.2018 [22:00:54] <bdmc> Welcome ( some ) All!  Shall we start, or wait for a few minutes?
03.05.2018 [22:03:38] <bdmc> Greetings, Peter.  We are pausing a few minutes to see if we get a larger group.
03.05.2018 [22:03:58] <pnunn> OK, I'll grab a coffee then.
03.05.2018 [22:07:58] <pnunn> Back
03.05.2018 [22:08:23] <bdmc> OK, so let's see who is actually present, and not just logged in.
03.05.2018 [22:08:27] <bdmc> Peter, I know. 
03.05.2018 [22:08:33] <bdmc> dops:  Here?
03.05.2018 [22:08:42] <bdmc> Etienne: You present?
03.05.2018 [22:08:47] <Etienne> Yes, I am
03.05.2018 [22:08:54] <bdmc> ~GuKKDevel: You, too?
03.05.2018 [22:08:59] <dops> Hi all, I am listening.
03.05.2018 [22:09:03] <GuKKDevel> yes
03.05.2018 [22:09:20] <bdmc> Anybody else "physically" present?
03.05.2018 [22:10:03] <bdmc> Nothing heard.
03.05.2018 [22:10:17] <bdmc> I will now call this meeting of the CAcert Board to order.
03.05.2018 [22:10:41] <bdmc> Any volunteers for minutes?
03.05.2018 [22:11:10] <Etienne> I can do it.
03.05.2018 [22:11:11] <bdmc> Does anybody have a need for a deadline, or is two hours sufficient?
03.05.2018 [22:11:20] <bdmc> Thank you, Etienne.
03.05.2018 [22:11:27] <bdmc> That should be 1.75 hours, now.
03.05.2018 [22:11:55] <pnunn> I've got about 2
03.05.2018 [22:12:13] <bdmc> ~GuKKDevel: I know that you are good with the clock.  If we both watch, we should be able to do it today.
03.05.2018 [22:12:24] <GuKKDevel> surely
03.05.2018 [22:12:27] <bdmc> OK, let's get moving.
03.05.2018 [22:12:48] <bdmc> May I hear a motion to accept our past meeting's minutes?
03.05.2018 [22:14:37] <Etienne> I move to accept the minutes.
03.05.2018 [22:15:02] <pnunn> I'll second, but must abstain because I wasn't present.
03.05.2018 [22:15:04] <bdmc> Just to be formal, that is the minutes for the meeting held on April 5th.
03.05.2018 [22:15:07] <Etienne> an thank you GuKKDevel for writing it
03.05.2018 [22:15:33] <bdmc> I will vote Aye to accept.
03.05.2018 [22:15:36] <GuKKDevel> abstain as I wrote them
03.05.2018 [22:15:40] <Etienne> aye
03.05.2018 [22:16:17] <pnunn> Apologies for missing the last meeting.. seems 2 hours sleep wasn't enough to get me there.
03.05.2018 [22:16:37] <bdmc> Darn!  That's what comes from getting old.  B-)
03.05.2018 [22:17:00] <pnunn> Indeed :)
03.05.2018 [22:17:09] <bdmc> dops: vote?
03.05.2018 [22:17:23] <GuKKDevel> not board
03.05.2018 [22:17:27] <Etienne> Dops is a guest.
03.05.2018 [22:17:40] <bdmc> Oops.  Forgot that time has passed.
03.05.2018 [22:18:13] <bdmc> In that case, are there any messages in cacert-board or cacert-board-private that we need to bring forward?
03.05.2018 [22:20:21] <bdmc> Nothing heard.  I think that everything being discussed there is also in the Agenda.
03.05.2018 [22:20:31] <bdmc> The same goes for our Action Items.
03.05.2018 [22:20:35] <bdmc> Agreed?
03.05.2018 [22:20:54] <pnunn> Sounds good to me.
03.05.2018 [22:21:10] <GuKKDevel> ok
03.05.2018 [22:21:37] <bdmc> In that case, we are at item 2.1.1.   I think that Etienne was in charge of this.
03.05.2018 [22:21:58] <Etienne> Yes, I was and I forget to write to the PO :-(
03.05.2018 [22:22:25] <bdmc> So move that forward to next meeting?
03.05.2018 [22:22:26] <Etienne> and he wrote me neither
03.05.2018 [22:22:32] <Etienne> yes, please.
03.05.2018 [22:22:38] <bdmc> All right.
03.05.2018 [22:23:03] <bdmc> I am pleased to report that we have an application for membership in CAcert, Inc.
03.05.2018 [22:23:26] <Etienne> (we need two supporter)
03.05.2018 [22:23:26] <bdmc> ( However, I forget.  Does he need to have paid, or can we accept his application, anyway? )
03.05.2018 [22:24:15] <bdmc> I am willing to support his application.
03.05.2018 [22:24:34] <Etienne> I move to accept Frédéric Grither, of 3 rue Edouard Brown-Sequard, F-75015 Paris, France as member of CAcert Inc.
03.05.2018 [22:24:47] <bdmc> I second.
03.05.2018 [22:24:52] <Etienne> aye
03.05.2018 [22:24:55] <pnunn> aye
03.05.2018 [22:25:03] <bdmc> aye
03.05.2018 [22:25:35] <GuKKDevel> abstain
03.05.2018 [22:26:10] <bdmc> Item 2.1.3  GDPR.  Any comments or a report?
03.05.2018 [22:26:39] <Etienne> I forwarded a resumee from Lambert.
03.05.2018 [22:27:09] <Etienne> According to the policies CAcert does not process other data than required for offering certificates, so as long as CAcert sticks to the policies we are ok.
03.05.2018 [22:27:13] <bdmc> That was in board-private, wasn't it?
03.05.2018 [22:27:43] <Etienne> yes; the second paragraph not yet.
03.05.2018 [22:28:07] <bdmc> All right.
03.05.2018 [22:28:20] <bdmc> Item 2.2.1  PHP Code update.
03.05.2018 [22:28:21] <Etienne> Now, the working group will do some propositions to board
03.05.2018 [22:28:35] <bdmc> Sorry Etienne.  Jumped too quickly.
03.05.2018 [22:28:50] <Etienne> Please, proceed.
03.05.2018 [22:29:54] <bdmc> I made some comments on this at our last couple of meetings ( well, the non-meeting ).  I was confused by the Git Repository.  Apparently the code has already been updated, so I wasn't sure what was expected.
03.05.2018 [22:31:18] <GuKKDevel> as far as I know dirk is the only one who can implement the changes into the testsystem and later on to the original system; at the moment 
03.05.2018 [22:31:38] <GuKKDevel> and who is allowed to do so
03.05.2018 [22:31:47] <GuKKDevel> from our policies
03.05.2018 [22:31:55] <bdmc> Right.  Peter and I were asked to work on the code in the Git Repository, so that was why I was confused.
03.05.2018 [22:32:09] <bdmc> ~GuKKDevel: Understood and agree.
03.05.2018 [22:32:59] <Etienne> Who is in contact with Dirk for the update(s)?
03.05.2018 [22:33:03] <GuKKDevel> so if you make changes, create a new branch if not existing with the number of the bug, so it can be merged by dirk
03.05.2018 [22:33:24] <GuKKDevel> not me
03.05.2018 [22:34:07] <Etienne> Is there something he should do?
03.05.2018 [22:34:23] <bdmc> I guess that we ( Peter and I ) need to get in touch with Dirk to find out what he needs from us.
03.05.2018 [22:34:42] <Etienne> Good idea.
03.05.2018 [22:34:42] <GuKKDevel> merge
03.05.2018 [22:35:32] <bdmc> Yes, there is a branch, and that is what we were given, but it appears functionally complete.  There are always more changes that COULD be made.
03.05.2018 [22:36:05] <bdmc> pnunn: thoughts?
03.05.2018 [22:36:25] <GuKKDevel> sites test.cacert.org and mgr.test.cacert.org are online
03.05.2018 [22:36:31] <Etienne> If I understand well, now, it should go to the test, then been tested, ...
03.05.2018 [22:36:36] <pnunn> I've not looked at the code but that would be the normal process with git.
03.05.2018 [22:37:15] <bdmc> Sorry.  I thought that you had also checked it out.
03.05.2018 [22:37:46] <pnunn> No, I think that was Peter (and I thought Peter Youel was also looking at code).
03.05.2018 [22:38:00] <pnunn> Far too many Peter's here.
03.05.2018 [22:38:04] <bdmc> Sorry.  I get the three of you confused.
03.05.2018 [22:38:21] <pnunn> :)
03.05.2018 [22:38:50] <bdmc> I'll have to go back through the non-records, and see.   Also need to get in touch with Dirk, in his "spare" time.
03.05.2018 [22:39:23] <pnunn> Maybee contact Peter directly and see where is at.
03.05.2018 [22:39:29] <Etienne> If he does not anser to e-mails, I can give you his snail mail address.
03.05.2018 [22:40:12] <bdmc> I guess that we are moving on to item 2.2.2 -- Bug 1417   Comments, report?
03.05.2018 [22:40:25] <GuKKDevel> sorry I have to leave, forgot some urgent appointment, but as I don't have anything to tell I , bye
03.05.2018 [22:40:39] <bdmc> Bye for now.
03.05.2018 [22:41:08] <bdmc> That takes us down to three -- non-quorum?
03.05.2018 [22:41:18] <pnunn> Was just going to ask that.
03.05.2018 [22:41:24] <Etienne> Three are a quorum.
03.05.2018 [22:41:29] <pnunn> OK.
03.05.2018 [22:41:35] <bdmc> Thank you, Etienne.  We continue.
03.05.2018 [22:41:43] <Etienne> I remember the old time we were often only three.
03.05.2018 [22:42:05] <bdmc> True, but did we have this many members in the Board?
03.05.2018 [22:42:59] <Etienne> one is in Africa looking for funds in a gold mine ;-)
03.05.2018 [22:42:59] <bdmc> Do we have anything regarding either Bug 1417 or Bug 1432 to discuss, or is that put off until next meeting?
03.05.2018 [22:43:25] <pnunn> No, not from me.
03.05.2018 [22:43:26] <Etienne> I could create a cert with a new firefox on a Samsung tablet
03.05.2018 [22:43:33] <Etienne> I was surprised.
03.05.2018 [22:43:40] <bdmc> Good news!
03.05.2018 [22:43:41] <Etienne> Android
03.05.2018 [22:44:00] <pnunn> Chrome seems to be getting worse, we are having certificate issues on commercial ones at the moment with it.
03.05.2018 [22:44:04] <Etienne> Should I check the versions from Android and FF?
03.05.2018 [22:45:14] <Etienne> What with the alternative ideas to create certs?
03.05.2018 [22:45:45] <bdmc> Firefox on this machine is reported as 59.0.2.   I will see what I can do right now.
03.05.2018 [22:46:29] <Etienne> (I cannot check it right now, is it is not my tablet.)
03.05.2018 [22:47:29] <bdmc> It looks as if I do not have the SHA-256 Root on this machine.  I will have to test on a different machine, later.
03.05.2018 [22:47:40] <bdmc> ( or install the correct root, here )
03.05.2018 [22:48:37] <bdmc> Etienne: I know that we have private notes on alternatives.  Are they published anywhere, or are we waiting for official sanction?
03.05.2018 [22:49:46] <Etienne> I don not know. I am just wondering if we become a CA that cannot deliver certs or if there are other ways for normal people.
03.05.2018 [22:50:55] <Etienne> If the alternative works: can they be published in the wiki?
03.05.2018 [22:51:22] <Etienne> Or has something to be programmed? An addon? a xyz?
03.05.2018 [22:52:02] <pnunn> Was PeterY working on the alternative,  I don't remember now.
03.05.2018 [22:52:14] <bdmc> That's what I was wondering, myself.  ( Publishing the alternatives in the Wiki.  That also means that that has to be easy to find.  I had a lot of trouble finding the 256-root for myself, a couple of weeks ago. )
03.05.2018 [22:53:01] <dops> Comment from my side: If the shell approach is considered as valid alternative, I certainly can add it to the wiki and official repositories (but would need access) to the latter).
03.05.2018 [22:53:07] <pnunn> I'd agree with that bdmc, I've had problems finding how to do things on our wiki over the years, it assumes a fair bit of prior knowledge in places.
03.05.2018 [22:53:54] <Etienne> That was, why I started to create overview sites an language portals, but added only what I found.
03.05.2018 [22:54:33] <pnunn> I've obviously missed some information because I'm not aware of the shell approach, but if its secure and works lets get it out there. Something is better than nothing.
03.05.2018 [22:54:35] <Etienne> The wiki would be a nice topic for a group of enuastic youngsters
03.05.2018 [22:54:54] <bdmc> Good News!   I just logged in to a different machine ( Ubuntu 16.04.4 LTS with Firefox 59.0.2 ) and was able to successfully create a Client Certificate!
03.05.2018 [22:55:29] <bdmc> I wonder whether the Paris group could take that on, not just the French parts?
03.05.2018 [22:56:08] <pnunn> We can ask.
03.05.2018 [22:56:11] <Etienne> A good access site can be translated.
03.05.2018 [22:57:29] <bdmc> Yes, a basic "How To Use CAcert" page in multiple languages.  That would have a pointer to the 256-root ( if allowed ) as well as how to create Client and Server certificates, etc.
03.05.2018 [22:57:51] <pnunn> That would be a great move.
03.05.2018 [22:58:17] <Etienne> Something like "CAcert for dummies"
03.05.2018 [22:58:47] <bdmc> Etienne or I can contact Frederic or Christophe and propose that.
03.05.2018 [22:59:39] <Etienne> If htey do in French, we will have sonnn afterwards also English, German, Czech
03.05.2018 [23:00:09] <bdmc> I suspect that they can do multiple languages, themselves, but having other translators would be good, too.
03.05.2018 [23:00:10] <Etienne> sorry: they, soon
03.05.2018 [23:00:49] <Etienne> Mothertongue is always the best translator.
03.05.2018 [23:00:58] <bdmc> ( Their English is better than my French! )
03.05.2018 [23:01:13] <Etienne> well...
03.05.2018 [23:01:28] <bdmc> ( I know, it doesn't take much. )
03.05.2018 [23:01:42] <bdmc> Anyway, done for now, or more here?
03.05.2018 [23:01:57] <pnunn> all good.
03.05.2018 [23:02:00] <Etienne> Are you asking? in French?
03.05.2018 [23:02:21] <bdmc> Sorry, I missed that turn?
03.05.2018 [23:02:37] <bdmc> Are you talking about my writing them, or something else?
03.05.2018 [23:02:44] <Etienne> @bdmc: are you asking Paris? even in English?
03.05.2018 [23:03:03] <bdmc> Yes, I have been talking to them in English, already.
03.05.2018 [23:04:31] <bdmc> Christophe is on my "Grant Group."
03.05.2018 [23:05:33] <bdmc> And that makes a good transition to item 3.1.  Do we want to talk about these individually, or all together?
03.05.2018 [23:06:26] <pnunn> Do them as one.
03.05.2018 [23:08:02] <bdmc> Etienne found something that may be useful for the European proposal, but before that, I was thinking that that one was dead.
03.05.2018 [23:08:03] <Etienne> In general: there is some money droping in, I see copies of the thank-you letters, but not the amount. There are two new yearly-50-AU-$-subsribers in April and probabely €150 sent to secure-U (but not confirmed).
03.05.2018 [23:08:30] <bdmc> The Australian one looks quite favourable.
03.05.2018 [23:10:18] <pnunn> I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think they get a lot of proposals in the Au one.
03.05.2018 [23:11:18] <Etienne> So, let's try AU and if enough time EU.
03.05.2018 [23:11:29] <bdmc> I haven't seen much traffic in that mailing list.  Just two, so far.
03.05.2018 [23:11:41] <bdmc> EU expires in ten days.
03.05.2018 [23:12:11] <pnunn> Is that enough time to put something together?
03.05.2018 [23:13:03] <bdmc> I don't think so.  From our reading of the requirements, we may not be able to apply on our own, but would need a suitable partner within the EU.
03.05.2018 [23:13:34] <pnunn> OK, then lets not waste effort on a non starter.
03.05.2018 [23:14:23] <bdmc> As you have probably seen in board-private, there was a fair amount of discussion a week or so ago, but nothing since then until Etienne's message yesterday.
03.05.2018 [23:15:10] <bdmc> pnunn: I was reaching that conclusion, myself.
03.05.2018 [23:16:42] <pnunn> Lets throw the AU one to the sub committee and see what comes about. I can't remember if I'm a current member of Linux AU or not, but can probably re-join if not if needed for submission.
03.05.2018 [23:17:29] <bdmc> That would be great, Peter.   I will prod them, and see if I can get some activity in the next week or so.
03.05.2018 [23:17:49] <pnunn> OK, in the mean time I'll sort out my membership status :)
03.05.2018 [23:18:00] <Etienne> https://www.linux.org.au/membership/?page=signup
03.05.2018 [23:18:13] <bdmc> I would think that it is a worthwhile membership, anyway.
03.05.2018 [23:18:24] <pnunn> Thank you Etienne :)
03.05.2018 [23:19:13] <pnunn> I think I am already a member, but I'll have to check.
03.05.2018 [23:19:58] <bdmc> Hmmm.  That looks interesting for me, too.   I like the cost!
03.05.2018 [23:20:15] <pnunn> Indeed.
03.05.2018 [23:20:34] <bdmc> Any comments on item 3.2?  ( I know, I am rushing, again. )
03.05.2018 [23:21:07] <pnunn> Has PeterY's idea of a facebook campaign got any traction?
03.05.2018 [23:21:10] <Etienne> I am working on further ideas, but this is long term.
03.05.2018 [23:21:26] <bdmc> I haven't heard anything on that front.
03.05.2018 [23:21:31] <pnunn> OK.
03.05.2018 [23:21:49] <Etienne> On IRC was a comment about giving money and a helping hand, but not before the MD5 is replaced.
03.05.2018 [23:22:07] <Etienne> as this is pending for two or three years now.
03.05.2018 [23:22:26] <pnunn> What's involved?
03.05.2018 [23:22:29] <Etienne> I wrote imediately @egal
03.05.2018 [23:22:32] <bdmc> Agreed.  Perhaps the "CAcert for Dummies" will help.
03.05.2018 [23:23:07] <Etienne> Maybe I should send him this mail again by the postman ringing at the door...
03.05.2018 [23:23:14] <bdmc> B-)
03.05.2018 [23:23:40] <bdmc> How long does it take to get mail between you?
03.05.2018 [23:24:09] <Etienne> Priority mail should be in 3 working days.
03.05.2018 [23:24:29] <Etienne> Sometimes 2.
03.05.2018 [23:24:55] <bdmc> How long driving?  ( No, I am not suggesting that you hand-deliver it! )
03.05.2018 [23:25:25] <Etienne> No, not driving, by the postal service.
03.05.2018 [23:25:42] <bdmc> No, I meant, how long would it take you to drive that far?
03.05.2018 [23:27:25] <Etienne> Following Openstreetmap Distance: 633km. Time: 6:12.
03.05.2018 [23:27:53] <Etienne> (about <500 miles)
03.05.2018 [23:28:18] <Etienne> (but I do not have a car, just a bicycle)
03.05.2018 [23:28:19] <bdmc> About twice as far as I went to get where I have been this week.  ( Yes, I know KM. )
03.05.2018 [23:28:33] <bdmc> So train, not car.
03.05.2018 [23:29:00] <Etienne> Yes, but unfortunately the German Railway are in bad conditions.
03.05.2018 [23:29:26] <pnunn> I'll bet there better by far than Australias, no matter how bad.
03.05.2018 [23:29:34] <bdmc> OK, so one last off-topic question before we move on.   I have forgotten.  Is any member of the CAcert.org web site allowed to edit the Wiki, or does it need special permission?
03.05.2018 [23:30:37] <Etienne> You need access rights from the wiki admin. I get it before I was member of Inc, but member of the community.
03.05.2018 [23:31:33] <bdmc> Except in certain restricted corridors ( Toronto to Montreal, for instance ) passenger train service in Canada has almost disappeared.  If I remember correctly, there are two trains a week across the country.
03.05.2018 [23:32:24] <bdmc> OK, so we need to arrange that for the Paris group.   I will contact them and see who they want to do the work.
03.05.2018 [23:33:03] <bdmc> From what they said, they are all Community members, and now Frederic is an Inc member.
03.05.2018 [23:33:09] <Etienne> Oh, we have two trains per hour from 0500 to (depends) 23:00-0100.
03.05.2018 [23:33:36] <Etienne> in some rural areas only one train per hour from 6-20
03.05.2018 [23:33:48] <bdmc> B-)
03.05.2018 [23:33:49] <pnunn> We have vast distances here and thousands of trucks making the runs between cities. Its insane. 
03.05.2018 [23:34:16] <Etienne> Trucks are not allowed to run from 22-5.
03.05.2018 [23:34:35] <Etienne> so we can sleep well.
03.05.2018 [23:34:43] <pnunn> Really.. thats when most of ours do. What a great idea.
03.05.2018 [23:35:02] <bdmc> I can remember years ago ( at least three decades ) someone said that between Edmonton and Calgary, about 350 km, there were as many people, perhaps 5,000, in the air as on the ground, travelling.
03.05.2018 [23:35:04] <Etienne> 40% of the goods are on the rail.
03.05.2018 [23:35:49] <pnunn> Yes, air travel is huge here too (relatively) but they keep talking about fast rail but nothing ever happens. We are decades behind.
03.05.2018 [23:36:01] <Etienne> But Australia has the fastest Kap gauge trains of the world.
03.05.2018 [23:36:02] <pnunn> Actually make that centuries.
03.05.2018 [23:36:17] <pnunn> Where?
03.05.2018 [23:36:46] <bdmc> As is Canada. ( we have gone backwards as far as train travel since the sixties )
03.05.2018 [23:37:01] <pnunn> I'm not sure fast and train are two words you would ever hear together here.
03.05.2018 [23:37:15] <pnunn> Its so short sighted.
03.05.2018 [23:37:58] <bdmc> In medium-distance ( 500-1000 km ) it can be much faster than air.
03.05.2018 [23:38:21] <pnunn> Absolutely.. by the time you muck around at airports.. much faster.
03.05.2018 [23:38:27] <Etienne> North Coast Line (QL Ry) 160 km/h in service, 210 km/h record
03.05.2018 [23:38:53] <Etienne> since 1997 from Brisbane to Rockhampton and Bundaberg
03.05.2018 [23:39:05] <bdmc> That sounds like the train that I took from Edinburgh to London a couple of years ago.
03.05.2018 [23:39:45] <bdmc> My phone GPS showed me over 205 km/hr more than once.
03.05.2018 [23:39:51] <pnunn> I've never heard of that one Etienne. Far north Queensland.. interesting. That's probably just because tey haven't caught up with the rest of Australia to remove them. :) Queensland is about 50 years behind the rest of OZ.
03.05.2018 [23:40:03] <pnunn> Nice..
03.05.2018 [23:40:14] <pnunn> But not close to the 400 in other parts of the world.
03.05.2018 [23:40:29] <Etienne> @bdmc probabely the InterCity 125 (125 mph)
03.05.2018 [23:40:55] <bdmc> I think so.  Then there is Japan and the TGV.
03.05.2018 [23:41:13] <bdmc> HOWEVER, we must get back to our Agenda.
03.05.2018 [23:41:22] <bdmc> Any Questions?
03.05.2018 [23:41:22] <pnunn> Indeed :)
03.05.2018 [23:42:31] <pnunn> Doesn't appear so.
03.05.2018 [23:43:11] <bdmc> I would like to suggest the 17th for our next meeting.  Any thoughts?
03.05.2018 [23:43:26] <bdmc> Earlier, later?
03.05.2018 [23:44:23] <bdmc> Welcome, Alex.  We are just getting to the end.
03.05.2018 [23:44:24] <pnunn> I'm probably not going to be available then, but I'm probably not going to be available for quite a few weeks. I'm about to start a lot of traveling to remote locations for renewable projects.
03.05.2018 [23:44:31] <alex> Hmm... I think too late... :-(
03.05.2018 [23:44:57] <bdmc> Now, Peter.  Are the projects renewable, or renewable?
03.05.2018 [23:44:57] <alex> I had a project event this evening and didn't forsee it takes so long :-(
03.05.2018 [23:45:22] <pnunn> lol.. no, wind and solar farms.
03.05.2018 [23:45:28] <bdmc> That's all right, Alex.  Karl-Heinz left quite early for the same reason.
03.05.2018 [23:46:13] <bdmc> Sounds interesting.   Is your involvement hardware or software or otherwise?
03.05.2018 [23:46:21] <Etienne> @Alex, if you are not in a hurry, do not leave after closing.
03.05.2018 [23:46:36] <alex> ok
03.05.2018 [23:46:36] <pnunn> Both. We interface the market operator to the farm control systems.
03.05.2018 [23:46:58] <bdmc> Good.  However, we are back off topic.
03.05.2018 [23:47:19] <bdmc> If you are near wifi or something else, perhaps you can join us.
03.05.2018 [23:47:28] <pnunn> OK, on topic, set the time that suites and I'll see if I'm available. 
03.05.2018 [23:47:38] <pnunn> Yep.
03.05.2018 [23:47:54] <Etienne> For me, it is OK
03.05.2018 [23:48:07] <Etienne> Peter Y will still be in Africa.
03.05.2018 [23:48:12] <bdmc> So, although pnunn won't necessarily be with us physically, let's say May 17th at the usual time and place.
03.05.2018 [23:48:35] <pnunn> Sounds good.
03.05.2018 [23:48:40] <Etienne> OK
03.05.2018 [23:48:48] <bdmc> Yes, I was remembering him.  Do we have any need to move the date to accomodate him or just do it anyway?
03.05.2018 [23:49:15] <pnunn> I'd say just do it.
03.05.2018 [23:49:35] <bdmc> That is after the deadline for the EU application, but I think that we have agreed not to pursue that.
03.05.2018 [23:49:38] <Etienne> If he has internet access the time will be in the evening for him.
03.05.2018 [23:49:57] <bdmc> True.  Later or earlier than you?
03.05.2018 [23:50:16] <bdmc> Well, we don't know where in Africa, do we?
03.05.2018 [23:50:36] <Etienne> in most countries one or two hours earlier.
03.05.2018 [23:51:13] <bdmc> OK.  Well, part way through this meeting, I was thinking that we would be finishing 20 minutes ago, but....
03.05.2018 [23:51:15] <Etienne> Yes, but Africa is long and not as large as Australia. Not many time zones.
03.05.2018 [23:51:33] <Etienne> ...but you lost your train ;-)
03.05.2018 [23:51:44] <pnunn> :)
03.05.2018 [23:52:02] <bdmc> Since we have agreed on a time and place, let us call this meeting Closed until two weeks hence.
03.05.2018 [23:52:22] <pnunn> Thank you all and good evening/morning/whatever..
03.05.2018 [23:52:28] <alex> :)
03.05.2018 [23:52:45] <bdmc> Good Night, Peter ( pnunn )
03.05.2018 [23:52:47] <bdmc> B-)
03.05.2018 [23:53:00] <bdmc> 17:52 here
03.05.2018 [23:53:38] <bdmc> Alex, I get easily confused.  Was it you that had the comments for the Grant Group?
03.05.2018 [23:53:40] <alex> nice afternoon brian
03.05.2018 [23:53:47] <alex> ah
03.05.2018 [23:54:21] <alex> i have written two times something, yes.
03.05.2018 [23:54:40] <alex> i found eu a bit not-so-easy
03.05.2018 [23:54:53] <alex> (but better funded)
03.05.2018 [23:55:05] <alex> and i found linux australia feasible
03.05.2018 [23:55:35] <alex> so you sent a grant request example
03.05.2018 [23:55:41] <alex> i just read now
03.05.2018 [23:55:57] <bdmc> That's what I thought I remembered.  I appreciate your contributions.
03.05.2018 [23:56:39] <bdmc> Etienne just added another item to the EU grant ideas.
03.05.2018 [23:57:17] <bdmc> During our meeting, we decided that it didn't seem feasible to try to make the ten-day deadline for the EU grant, but, instead, to concentrate on the Linux Australia one.
03.05.2018 [23:58:12] <bdmc> If any other opportunities appear, we are always looking for more!
03.05.2018 [23:58:46] <alex> i just have always issues with the goals. as already karl-heinz has written few days ago, it is difficult to set goals as it seems that cacert can hardly achieve any update. as we are already trying to reduce our work to things that look feasible we must find steps (milestones) and we have to know people beforehand who can perform these steps (in a reliable way).
03.05.2018 [23:58:48] <Etienne> https://wiki.cacert.org/Brain/CAcertInc/Committee/MeetingAgendasAndMinutes/2018-03-01/ideas
03.05.2018 [23:59:15] <Etienne> Exactly.
03.05.2018 [23:59:48] <alex> anything that we will write as being our fundraising goals must be achieved somehow. i still see some danger in it.
03.05.2018 [23:59:49] <Etienne> For me, the next milestone has to be install the allready signed new root cert.
04.05.2018 [00:00:06] <alex> yes ok
04.05.2018 [00:00:11] <bdmc> Agreed.  However, the Australia one isn't necessarily project oriented, but can also just support the organisation.  Obviously we need to have a "Plan" and "show progress," too.
04.05.2018 [00:00:16] <alex> nice goal
04.05.2018 [00:01:16] <bdmc> alex: We are going to try to write a "CAcert For Dummies" page that will bring everything that you need or need to know, such as the 256-root, and how to create certificates, all on to one Wiki Page.
04.05.2018 [00:01:53] <alex> ok, good.
04.05.2018 [00:02:04] <alex> i think we have several wiki pages about this
04.05.2018 [00:02:25] <alex> and not everything is in sync and properly described till final step
04.05.2018 [00:02:34] <bdmc> Etienne and I have both been able to create new Certificates with Firefox in two different platforms ( Android and Ubuntu ).
04.05.2018 [00:02:48] <Etienne> But not an unique I can print and give it to my mother and she will understand it.
04.05.2018 [00:03:00] <bdmc> Yes, but the problem is finding all of the relevent information and understanding it.
04.05.2018 [00:03:09] <alex> true
04.05.2018 [00:03:42] <bdmc> As Etienne says, we need one simple page that leads someone through the process, and produces success.
04.05.2018 [00:03:54] <alex> yes
04.05.2018 [00:04:19] <bdmc> That is our current project, and I hope to have something to show for the next Board Meeting.
04.05.2018 [00:04:24] <Etienne> Furthermore, we can distribute this page as "free e-Book"!
04.05.2018 [00:04:51] <bdmc> True.  Multiple formats, PDF, MOBI, HTML, etc?
04.05.2018 [00:04:57] <alex> do you have any drafts of this procedure or were you "just" able to create certificates?
04.05.2018 [00:05:02] <alex> ebook is also a good idea
04.05.2018 [00:05:12] <bdmc> Just like it "used to be."
04.05.2018 [00:05:18] <alex> better than wiki sometimes
04.05.2018 [00:06:00] <bdmc> alex: Do you have a machine with a recent version of Firefox?
04.05.2018 [00:06:01] <alex> epub was nice
04.05.2018 [00:06:07] <alex> yes i have
04.05.2018 [00:06:16] <bdmc> That was the format that I was forgetting.
04.05.2018 [00:06:25] <Etienne> open an account; print the wot form; find an assurer neraby; create a certificate; find the hoetos in the wiki for my e-mail client.
04.05.2018 [00:07:00] <Etienne> sending a signed mail
04.05.2018 [00:07:27] <bdmc> alex: Log in to cacert.org.  Go to Client Certificates, New.  Follow Instructions. 
04.05.2018 [00:08:11] <alex> "find the howtos in the wiki for the email client in question" => i have done so formerly and i have found quite some odds.
04.05.2018 [00:08:32] <alex> because of outdated descriptions
04.05.2018 [00:08:32] <Etienne> bdmc: before log in you have to open/subscribe an account.
04.05.2018 [00:08:40] <alex> if the email client was mentioned
04.05.2018 [00:08:56] <bdmc> I was talking about Alex testing the Firefox procedure.
04.05.2018 [00:09:04] <Etienne> sorry.
04.05.2018 [00:09:27] <alex> bdmc, is there a difference between the long-term and current production firefox version?
04.05.2018 [00:09:34] <alex> shall i do it now?
04.05.2018 [00:10:09] <bdmc> I agree.  I have become very lost trying to find anything in the Wiki.   I think that our CAcert For Dummies page will help a lot, if it is logically constructed.
04.05.2018 [00:10:45] <bdmc> alex: certainly.  ( We are using the current version of Firefox for our machines.  I am running Ubuntu 16.04.4 LTS. )
04.05.2018 [00:12:09] <alex> ok, i'm booting vm
04.05.2018 [00:12:41] <bdmc> Etienne: how much longer do you want to be here?
04.05.2018 [00:13:20] <alex> i can't be for too long here any more btw
04.05.2018 [00:13:21] <Etienne> I can stay for 10 or 15 minutes.
04.05.2018 [00:13:29] <alex> this is fine for me too
04.05.2018 [00:13:30] <bdmc> OK, thanks.
04.05.2018 [00:14:35] <Etienne> Then this is what our library looks like:
04.05.2018 [00:14:35] <Etienne> CAcert for Dummies
04.05.2018 [00:14:35] <Etienne> Privacy puzzle book for children of the 1st/2nd primary class (first draft)
04.05.2018 [00:14:35] <Etienne> Encryption book with cryptographic tasks for children of the upper primary classes (first draft)
04.05.2018 [00:14:35] <Etienne> LÜK magazine (Concept; Canada: Veritech, Australia: Tutor System)
04.05.2018 [00:15:16] <bdmc> So there IS a yellow printed CAcert for Dummies book?
04.05.2018 [00:16:00] <Etienne> No, as we are not Wiley. We have to find an other title, but this is the e-Book of the to be created page.
04.05.2018 [00:16:36] <bdmc> Ah.  OK.   How about "CAcert Basics For Beginners"?
04.05.2018 [00:16:59] <Etienne> "for Dummies" is a registered TM. You can pay $$$$ to Wiley to have a "for dummies" for you company. Have some $$$$?
04.05.2018 [00:17:30] <bdmc> Nope.  I am "between assignments" just now!  ( Looking for paying work. )
04.05.2018 [00:18:31] <bdmc> I wonder whether Alex's VM is running, yet.
04.05.2018 [00:19:12] <alex> ok nice, browser integration works great! :-)
04.05.2018 [00:19:21] <bdmc> Nice isn't it!!!
04.05.2018 [00:19:31] <alex> yes, i like it very much!
04.05.2018 [00:19:56] <bdmc> So we just tell everybody not to use Chrome, and switch to Firefox.   !!!  B-)
04.05.2018 [00:20:09] <alex> and this doesn't work in long time stable version of firefox?
04.05.2018 [00:20:18] <alex> 52.7 or something?
04.05.2018 [00:20:36] <bdmc> Is it still released, or has it been replaced?
04.05.2018 [00:21:11] <alex> 52.7.3 is long-term stable support and will be replaced end of may
04.05.2018 [00:21:17] <bdmc> My version is 59.0.2.
04.05.2018 [00:21:20] <alex> or beginning of june
04.05.2018 [00:21:32] <alex> no, i am talking about long-term stable
04.05.2018 [00:21:45] <bdmc> It came in through the Ubuntu repository as a regular update.
04.05.2018 [00:21:51] <alex> i have asked before if it is required to used current production version or long term stable
04.05.2018 [00:22:25] <bdmc> I didn't understand.  I presume that the "long term stable" has to be requested specially.
04.05.2018 [00:22:28] <alex> if you use debian stable for example they serve whatever is long-term supported by firefox dev team which is 52.7.3
04.05.2018 [00:22:43] <alex> but for you i have started vm with current system
04.05.2018 [00:22:48] <bdmc> OK.  Got you.
04.05.2018 [00:22:52] <alex> and there it works great.
04.05.2018 [00:23:04] <bdmc> That needs to be considered.
04.05.2018 [00:23:09] <alex> shall i try?
04.05.2018 [00:23:19] <bdmc> I wonder what CentOS and Fedora are using.
04.05.2018 [00:23:31] <bdmc> If you like, although it is getting quite late.
04.05.2018 [00:24:03] <alex> is the sha2 cert already in place?
04.05.2018 [00:24:15] <alex> because the cert was replaced by a new one
04.05.2018 [00:24:42] <bdmc> I have the new cert installed on the machine where I created the new certificate.
04.05.2018 [00:24:50] <bdmc> ( new cert = new root cert )
04.05.2018 [00:25:38] <alex> yup works great
04.05.2018 [00:25:40] <bdmc> OK, so it is bed time for you both.  We can continue this in either cacert-devel or cacert-board-private.
04.05.2018 [00:25:55] <bdmc> ( was that with 57 or 59? )
04.05.2018 [00:25:58] <alex> so well done for programmers and testers :)
04.05.2018 [00:26:11] <alex> latter was 52.7.3
04.05.2018 [00:26:15] <alex> first was...
04.05.2018 [00:26:18] <bdmc> All the better.
04.05.2018 [00:26:37] <alex> ... 59.0.2
04.05.2018 [00:27:26] <bdmc> So we can create Client ( and probably Server ) certificates with both versions of Firefox, but not Chrome, no matter what root certificate is installed in Chrome.
04.05.2018 [00:27:26] <alex> yeah, chrome is an issue. it is quite famous nowadays, but i still believe that for open source fans firefox is must
04.05.2018 [00:27:56] <alex> and chrome uses system ressources still i believe, so we cant do much i suppose?
04.05.2018 [00:28:32] <bdmc> I was just reading an article in Linux Magazine about the "new Firefox," and they were quite impressed.
04.05.2018 [00:29:34] <alex> library is also good, but someone has to write ;-) some titles are not that easy as an explanation of what to do.
04.05.2018 [00:30:00] <alex> ok, should we finish for today?
04.05.2018 [00:30:12] <Etienne> If I could, I would create a FF fork with the create-certificate-tag included as "CAcert-Fox" for our members.
04.05.2018 [00:30:12] <Etienne> Alex: I am writing, but it takes some time.
04.05.2018 [00:30:35] <alex> :)
04.05.2018 [00:31:04] <bdmc> I agree.  I have a couple of assignments to work on, contacting Paris, among other things, which I will do this evening.  Just 18:30 here, now.
04.05.2018 [00:31:58] <bdmc> Good Night, both of you!   I think that we accomplished some things.
04.05.2018 [00:32:14] <Etienne> bdmc: Bonne chance!
04.05.2018 [00:32:19] <Etienne> Alex: Gute Nacht
04.05.2018 [00:32:30] <bdmc> Merci, Etienne.
04.05.2018 [00:32:36] <alex> bonne nuit, good night, gute nacht :)
}}}