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   3 10:47 -!- INOPIAE [smuxi@xdsl-89-0-74-42.netcologne.de] has joined #board-meeting
   4 10:49 -!- R [548540de@localhost] has joined #board-meeting
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   7 10:52 -!- mode/#board-meeting [+o INOPIAE] by felix
   8 10:52 -!- mode/#board-meeting [+o R] by felix
   9 10:52 -!- mode/#board-meeting [+o StefanT] by felix
  10 10:53 -!- INOPIAE changed the topic of #board-meeting to: Board Meeting 2016-01-10 10:00 UTC | https://wiki.cacert.org/Brain/CAcertInc/Committee/MeetingAgendasAndMinutes/2016-01-10
  11 10:59 -!- R is now known as ReinhardM
  12 11:00 <ReinhardM> hello all together
  13 11:00 <StefanT> Good Morning
  14 11:00 <ReinhardM> we will wait another 5 minutes to see, if more board members will  attend
  15 11:00 <INOPIAE> Hello
  16 11:05 <ReinhardM> hello and welcome to the board meeting
  17 11:05 -!- mode/#board-meeting [+m ] by INOPIAE
  18 11:05 <ReinhardM> Juergen will attend in a few minutes
  19 11:06 -!- INOPIAE changed the topic of #board-meeting to: Board Meeting 2016-01-10 10:00 UTC| the channel is moderated for voice to board member only | https://wiki.cacert.org/Brain/CAcertInc/Committee/MeetingAgendasAndMinutes/2016-01-10
  20 11:06 <ReinhardM> I hereby open the board meeting
  21 11:07 <ReinhardM> 1.2 Accept the minutes from the last meeting.
  22 11:07 <ReinhardM> any comments?
  23 11:07 -!- jmbruckner [jmbruckner@178.188.196.234] has joined #board-meeting
  24 11:08 -!- mode/#board-meeting [+o jmbruckner] by INOPIAE
  25 11:08 <felix> Eva did changes in the wiki to my version of the minutes
  26 11:08 <jmbruckner> sorry im late
  27 11:08 <ReinhardM> hello juergen, welcome to the board meeting
  28 11:08 <jmbruckner> @felix what changes?
  29 11:09 <ReinhardM> just have a look at https://wiki.cacert.org/Brain/CAcertInc/Committee/MeetingAgendasAndMinutes/2015-12-18?action=diff&rev1=4&rev2=3
  30 11:09 <jmbruckner> aha .. interesting
  31 11:11 <ReinhardM> I move to delete these additional comments. If anyone is interested in the discussion he/she should have a look inti the logfiles
  32 11:11 <ReinhardM> the transscript is not there
  33 11:11 <ReinhardM> should be done asap
  34 11:12 <felix> I agree with that.
  35 11:12 <INOPIAE> I will attached the transcript today
  36 11:12 <jmbruckner> second and aye
  37 11:12 <StefanT> i agree with the version of felix
  38 11:12 <ReinhardM> confirm
  39 11:12 <INOPIAE> aye
  40 11:12 <jmbruckner> and please add the transcripts soon
  41 11:14 <ReinhardM> OK, the motion will be presented as motion in the system
  42 11:14 <ReinhardM> as i see the motion is accepted
  43 11:14 <ReinhardM> so let's continue
  44 11:14 <ReinhardM> 3. Who is making minutes?
  45 11:15 <INOPIAE> I will do the minutes of today
  46 11:15 <jmbruckner> thanks Marcus
  47 11:15 <ReinhardM> thank you, Marcus
  48 11:15 <ReinhardM> 4. Chair asks whether cacert-board-private maillist includes any items that need to be disclosed to Members.
  49 11:15 <ReinhardM> no items
  50 11:16 <jmbruckner> so far i know, no items
  51 11:16 <ReinhardM> 5. Chair asks whether cacert-board maillist includes any business items that aren't on the agenda yet.
  52 11:16 <ReinhardM> no items
  53 11:16 <jmbruckner> same as above
  54 11:16 <StefanT> nothing from me
  55 11:17 <ReinhardM> 6. Chair introduces the URL of action items to the meeting, and asks for discussion.
  56 11:17 <ReinhardM> no action items
  57 11:18 <felix> we did not use them yet and therefore have none
  58 11:18 <ReinhardM> let's go oon with 2. Businesses
  59 11:18 <ReinhardM> Personal matters
  60 11:19 <ReinhardM> 2.1.1 accept the membership application of Janis Streib and Neal Oakey
  61 11:20 <ReinhardM> I move to do the acceptance for each one separately
  62 11:20 <jmbruckner> lets do that seperately for each of them please
  63 11:20 <ReinhardM> I accept the membership for Janis Streib
  64 11:20 <jmbruckner> second and AYE
  65 11:20 <StefanT> Aye
  66 11:20 <INOPIAE> aye
  67 11:21 <felix> aye
  68 11:21 <ReinhardM> OK, Janis Streib is accepted a new member
  69 11:22 <ReinhardM> Secretary, please write a message and treasurer will give the details for membership fees
  70 11:22 <ReinhardM> I accept the membership of Neal Oakey
  71 11:23 <jmbruckner> second, AYE
  72 11:23 <StefanT> Aye
  73 11:23 <INOPIAE> aye
  74 11:23 <felix> aye
  75 11:23 <ReinhardM> OK, Neal Oakey is accepted as a new member.
  76 11:23 <ReinhardM> Secretary, please write a message and treasurer will give the details for membership fees
  77 11:24 <ReinhardM> 2.1.2 two members resigned their membership
  78 11:24 <ReinhardM> this is an information for all
  79 11:24 <ReinhardM> 2.2 OFT report
  80 11:25 <ReinhardM> 2.2.1 missing feedback by Kevin
  81 11:25 <ReinhardM> has anyone any information from our Public Officer?
  82 11:26 <StefanT> no
  83 11:26 <jmbruckner> I dont have any information, but please dont forgot we had holidays around the world
  84 11:27 <ReinhardM> OK
  85 11:27 <ReinhardM> 2.2.2 list of lodged documents
  86 11:27 <ReinhardM> we have the list and can work on it
  87 11:28 <jmbruckner> I saw that there are many of the documents are missing in the SVN
  88 11:28 <ReinhardM> that is a breach of our princile of Open Governance
  89 11:29 <felix> so the communication with the OFT was not properly documented...
  90 11:29 <jmbruckner> @felix .. sadly it wasn't
  91 11:29 <ReinhardM> see our statutes rule 23
  92 11:30 <ReinhardM> I expect some surprise in the coming days
  93 11:35 <INOPIAE> Shall we ask our members if they have any idea about the missing documents?
  94 11:36 <jmbruckner> Another hint that handovers did fail in the past
  95 11:36 <ReinhardM> During handover these documents had to be there
  96 11:37 <ReinhardM> The act requires that we keep a book of custody
  97 11:38 <ReinhardM> we shall prepare a motion
  98 11:38 <jmbruckner> yes indeed
  99 11:38 <ReinhardM> maybe that a former Public Officer has all documents?
 100 11:38 <ReinhardM> let's continue
 101 11:38 <ReinhardM> 2.3 closing of Westpac savings account as the earnings are less than on the transaction account and transfer the money to the transaction account
 102 11:39 <ReinhardM> Treasurer, please give some more details
 103 11:39 <jmbruckner> I remember that i did discuss this with Michael last year, but we did not continue on it
 104 11:39 <StefanT> that was a proposal to increase the earning at Westpac Bank
 105 11:40 <ReinhardM> OK, sounds good
 106 11:40 <ReinhardM> I prepare a motion
 107 11:41 <ReinhardM> I move to transfer the money from Wetpac savings account to Wetpac tranaction account and close the savings account thereafter
 108 11:41 <INOPIAE> seciond T aye
 109 11:41 <StefanT> Aye
 110 11:42 <jmbruckner> aye
 111 11:42 <felix> aye
 112 11:42 <ReinhardM> OK, motion CARRIED
 113 11:42 <ReinhardM> let's continue
 114 11:42 <ReinhardM> 2.4 Poll to see the position of members towards Audit
 115 11:43 <ReinhardM> there are a lot of rumors happening behind the scenes.
 116 11:43 <ReinhardM> One point but not the least is that "someone" postponed the meeting on 2016-01-29 for root resign procedure.
 117 11:44 <ReinhardM> We should ask our members, if they want to continue as a Certificate Authority.
 118 11:44 <StefanT> At Events, almost every community member asks for the Audit
 119 11:45 <ReinhardM> The question will be send to our INC members only.
 120 11:45 <jmbruckner> sounds good to me
 121 11:45 <ReinhardM> We want to collect rough consensus and evidence gathering.
 122 11:45 <ReinhardM> NO BALLOT!
 123 11:46 <INOPIAE> I think it is a good idea to see the posiotion of our INC memberst.
 124 11:46 <INOPIAE> How do you want to do the ballot?
 125 11:46 <ReinhardM> We should use DOODLE
 126 11:47 <ReinhardM> NO BALLOT, but a voting to gain rogh consensus!
 127 11:47 <INOPIAE> OK
 128 11:47 <jmbruckner> how secure are personal datas of our members there?
 129 11:50 <felix> we could also do a simle HTML-form on CAcert software...
 130 11:50 <felix> ääh on Cacert hardware
 131 11:51 <felix> with manually built software...
 132 11:51 <felix> the question here should be, that we want to do such oppinion gathering.
 133 11:51 <ReinhardM> which i prefer
 134 11:52 <jmbruckner> i would also prefer to do this poll on CAcert hardware
 135 11:52 <ReinhardM> I move to do the poll
 136 11:52 <ReinhardM> the system will be appointed after this meeting
 137 11:52 <ReinhardM> we will discuss the need for privacy.
 138 11:53 <INOPIAE> Just to do the poll but no decision which software to be used?
 139 11:53 <ReinhardM> YES
 140 11:53 <StefanT> second & aye
 141 11:53 <felix> aye
 142 11:53 <ReinhardM> AYE
 143 11:53 <INOPIAE> aye
 144 11:53 <jmbruckner> AYE
 145 11:53 <jmbruckner> but i think we should keep the Doodle-Poll as 'backup' if its not possible to do this on CAcert Hardware
 146 11:53 <ReinhardM> OK, motion CARRIED
 147 11:54 <ReinhardM> next topic 2.5 ownership of Google+ account
 148 11:55 <jmbruckner> well i asked our former PR-Officer 2 times to handover Admin- and/or Owner-Rights of the G+ page last year
 149 11:55 <jmbruckner> the result was that he did remove all other admins except himself and another (former Board-Member)
 150 11:55 <INOPIAE> Did you get any answer?
 151 11:55 <jmbruckner> no concrete answers
 152 11:56 <ReinhardM> As I have seen he is using the CAcert logo!
 153 11:56 <ReinhardM> And he is no official representative of CAcert INC.
 154 11:57 <jmbruckner> Alex just stated that "there is now ownership of a G+-Page"
 155 11:57 <jmbruckner> that was all i got as answer from him
 156 11:57 <INOPIAE> I think we should ask the current owners/admins one last time to handover the account.
 157 11:57 <ReinhardM> ACK
 158 11:58 <jmbruckner> Yes i think so too
 159 11:58 <ReinhardM> Juergen will you please write that email?
 160 11:58 <jmbruckner> yes okay
 161 11:58 <ReinhardM> fix the date for an expected answer to 14 days please
 162 11:58 <jmbruckner> yes, allright
 163 11:58 <ReinhardM> afte that time has passed we will decide what to do.
 164 11:59 <ReinhardM> next topic 2.6 Investigation committee
 165 11:59 <ReinhardM> Currently 2 persons has agreed to join the investigation committee.
 166 12:00 <jmbruckner> sorry, fire-brigade-alarm, have to run...
 167 12:00 <ReinhardM> One is of profession lawyer, the second one is a data privacy professional.
 168 12:00 <ReinhardM> I move to implement the investigation committee and try to fill it up with a third person.
 169 12:01 <INOPIAE> second & aye
 170 12:01 <felix> aye
 171 12:01 <StefanT> aye
 172 12:02 <ReinhardM> Juergen has left. He will gicve his answer in the motion system.
 173 12:03 <ReinhardM> next topic
 174 12:03 <ReinhardM> 3. Question Time
 175 12:03 <ReinhardM> please open the channel
 176 12:03 -!- mode/#board-meeting [-m ] by INOPIAE
 177 12:04 <ReinhardM> Answer to katzazi
 178 12:04 <ReinhardM> All q´your questions will be answered by the investigation committee.
 179 12:05 <katzazi> they were answers to you not to any committe who cannot answer thenm
 180 12:05 <katzazi> that committee is not board and cannot answer for board
 181 12:06 <katzazi> also I will not accept such a committee
 182 12:06 <ReinhardM> IMHO board will be questioned by the investigation committee as well as the members in question.
 183 12:06 <katzazi> but it was a members question not a question of a committee or anything else
 184 12:06 <katzazi> those were questions about your work and not mine
 185 12:07 <katzazi> and as far as I understand you that committee should investigate my or other persons work and not board work
 186 12:07 <katzazi> so you should answer on your own
 187 12:07 <katzazi> can you please name the lawyer for that committee
 188 12:08 <ReinhardM> Our answer is the implementation of such an investigation committee.
 189 12:08 <katzazi> that is not an answer to those quesitons
 190 12:09 <katzazi> another question: why did you not address the recent comments from critical and access team?
 191 12:09 <katzazi> what is the name of the lawyer?
 192 12:09 <ReinhardM> The answer was already given in topic 2.4
 193 12:09 <katzazi> no
 194 12:10 <katzazi> there were no names
 195 12:10 <ReinhardM> names are privat concerns
 196 12:10 <katzazi> you want me to be affected to I have a right to learn that name
 197 12:10 <katzazi> also I have reasons to doubt that you have found such a lawyer
 198 12:11 <ReinhardM> that is your circling method
 199 12:11 <ReinhardM> therefor we want the investigation committee.
 200 12:11 <katzazi> so that you do not have to answer any questions?
 201 12:11 <ReinhardM> We see the results coming from a third party. That will be the base of a solution.
 202 12:12 <katzazi> no
 203 12:12 <katzazi> it will not a base for a solution
 204 12:12 <katzazi> what about just telling us what the issues are?
 205 12:12 <ReinhardM> So if you do not accept the investigation committee as you wrote already, we have to make a decision?
 206 12:12 <katzazi> no you have to name the allegations
 207 12:12 <katzazi> and go to arbitration
 208 12:12 <katzazi> those are our rules
 209 12:12 <ReinhardM> Are there any more questions from the floor?
 210 12:12 <katzazi> there are no other rules
 211 12:13 <katzazi> yes
 212 12:13 <katzazi> I asked one above
 213 12:13 <ReinhardM> Are there any more questions from the floor?
 214 12:13 <katzazi> why did you not address that critical team and access team have announced to stop their work
 215 12:13 <katzazi> because of recent board activities
 216 12:13 <katzazi> also: why did you not answer the questions raised on board public?
 217 12:14 <katzazi> critical team and access team are not related to the investigation committee or are they now under that committee as well?
 218 12:15 <katzazi> also why are you censoring the questions of the members?
 219 12:15 <katzazi> and what is missing for the OTF report?
 220 12:16 <katzazi> why do you not use email for your non-poll?
 221 12:16 <katzazi> when will you bring up the topics of the last board?
 222 12:17 <katzazi> where was it changed that the cacert logo is under open license so cannot be used by someone else on their website?
 223 12:19 <katzazi> you should be able to answer at least some of those questions now, as they were about topics handled today and any board member could have asked according questions as well so you should have an answer prepared
 224 12:23 -!- mode/#board-meeting [-m ] by INOPIAE
 225 12:23 -!- mode/#board-meeting [+m ] by INOPIAE
 226 12:24 <ReinhardM> We decided to give a quarterly management report. That will be published in our wiki system.
 227 12:25 <ReinhardM> When will be the next meeting?
 228 12:25 <INOPIAE> 2016-01+-24 10 UTC?
 229 12:25 <ReinhardM> ACK
 230 12:25 <StefanT> OK
 231 12:25 <felix> yes
 232 12:26 <ReinhardM> Thanks to all for attending the meeting.
 233 12:26 <ReinhardM> Have anice sunday.
 234 12:26 <ReinhardM> I hereby close the meeting.
 235 12:26 <StefanT> Good bye
 236 12:26 <ReinhardM> good bye
 237 12:26 <INOPIAE> bey
 238 12:26 -!- ReinhardM [548540de@localhost] has left #board-meeting