. '''To Brain [[Brain#CAcert_Inc._-_CAcert.org_Members_Association|CAcert Inc. - CAcert.org Members Association]]''' - '''To CAcert Inc. [[Brain/CAcertInc/AssociationRules|Association Rules]]''' - '''To CAcert Inc. [[Brain/CAcertInc/Finance|Finance]]''' - '''To CAcert Inc. [[Brain/CAcertInc/Committee|Committee (Board of Directors)]]''' . '''Back to [[Brain/CAcertInc|CAcert Inc. Overview]]''' ---- == CAcert Inc. Proposal for an Association Move == === July 2011 === . CAcert Inc. is currently an incorporated non-profit association registered with New South Wales (NSW), Australia. . There are some thoughts about moving the Association to another country . This page collects questions, answers, infos to start with a proposal * '''Questions?''' || || === Comparison Summary === || Questions \ Countries || New South Wales (Australia) || Germany || Austria || United Kingdom || Switzerland || France (except administrative areas of Bas-Rhin, Haut-Rhin and Moselle) || Principality of Liechtenstein || || Association rules || Assoc Act 2009 [[http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/sessionalview/sessional/act/2009-7.pdf|PDF]] [[http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/aia2009307/|HTML]] [[http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/maintop/view/inforce/act+7+2009+cd+0+N|Frames]] || [[http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bundesrecht/vereinsg/gesamt.pdf|Gesetz zur Regelung des öffentlichen Vereinsrechts (Vereinsgesetz)]] <
> as example see [[http://fsfe.org/about/legal/constitution.en.html|FSFE constitution ]] || || (for the type of society, see [[https://www.gov.uk/set-up-a-social-enterprise]]) || [[https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classified-compilation/19070042/index.html#id-ni2-ni6-ni8|Swiss Civil Law 1907, §§60-79]] || [[https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=LEGITEXT000006069570|Loi du 1er juillet 1901 relative au contrat d'association]] || [[https://www.gesetze.li/lilexprod/lgsystpage2.jsp?formname=showlaw&lgblid=1926004000&gueltigdate=02012017|Art. 246 – 260 PGR]], see also [[http://www.llv.li/files/onlineschalter/Dokument-97.pdf|resumee]] (PDF) || || Minimum National Directors ? || 3 || 0, but at least one from board (depends on how it is set up internally) needs to sign before a German notary.|| || || 0 || 0 || 0 || || International Directors ? || yes || yes x^1^ || || || yes || yes || yes || || International Members ? || yes || yes x^1^ || || || yes || yes || yes || || Minimum members ? || 5 || 3 (7 for creation) || || || 2 || 2 || || || Tax status / method ? || application to ATO || if not-for-profit no need to pay corporate and value added tax || || || if not charitable, yes if annual benefit (ex membership fees) > 10 000 CHF; withholding tax will be refunded || Corporate tax and VAT: if paid leaders, competitive activity and according to conditions of exercise of the activity : "4P rules": Produit (product sold), prix (price), public (recipients), publicité (advertising). For VAT, each activity is evaluated separatly. No taxes under 60 000 €/year of global turnover. For more details, see [[http://www11.minefe.gouv.fr/boi/boi2006/4fepub/textes/4h506/4h506.pdf|instruction BOI 4 H-5-06]] || || || Audit ? || no || recommendation: yes, but can be internal audit, pro bono basis or voluntary || || || full external audit if two of the following figures are exceeded 1. total assets of CHF 10 million, 2. turnover of CHF 20 million, 3. average annual total of 50 full-time staff.<
>The articles of association and the general meeting are free to make such auditing arrangements as they deem fit in other cases. (usually internal audit) || Financial audit if are filled 2 of the following 3 criteria: 50 employees, 3,1 million euros of sales except tax or 1,55 million totals of assessment || if balance > 6 Mio CHF or benefit > 12 Mio CHF || || Annual Responsibilities ? || AGM + final report|| GM + final report, (GM does not need to be annual, depends on statutes) || || || following the statutes || Legally: no. Annual GM recommanded in the statutes || || || Physical presence ? || Public Officer in NSW || one person in Germany that is allowed to receive mail, similar to PO || || || one person in Switzerland that is allowed to receive mail, similar to PO || Snail Mail in the same administrative area as where has been declared the association ("département"). || Public Officer in FL || || Strengths || up & going, cheap || big member base || || || up & going, cheap; [[https://www.eda.admin.ch/eda/en/home/aussenpolitik/internationale_organisationen/internationale_organisationeninderschweiz.html|25 international organisations based in Switzerland]] || Creation formalities and many others possible online : [[https://mdel.mon.service-public.fr/gestion-association.html|Link]] || * Attractive data protection legislation<
> * Liberal right of order<
> * Swiss franc<
> * stability<
> * Customs union, EEA but not EU || || Weaknesses || requires 3 AU directors, AU lacks people || secur-u already in DE || || || || || only one assurer || || Juris Privacy/Security || [[http://www.privacy.gov.au/|Australian Privacy regulations]] x^2^ || [[http://ec.europa.eu/justice/policies/privacy/law/index_en.htm|DPA under EU regulation]], [[http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bdsg_1990/index.html|BDSG]], data security officer <
> [[https://www.bvdnet.de/verband/bvd-blog/post/2015/12/10/datenschutzgesetze-im-vergleich-deutschland-und-schweiz.html|Comparaison data privacy D/CH (in german)]] || || || [[https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classified-compilation/19920153/index.html|Federal Act on Data Protection]], [[https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classified-compilation/19930159/index.html|Ordinance to the Federal Act on Data Protection]] <
> [[https://www.bvdnet.de/verband/bvd-blog/post/2015/12/10/datenschutzgesetze-im-vergleich-deutschland-und-schweiz.html|Comparaison data privacy D/CH (in german)]] || [[https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=JORFTEXT000000886460|Loi n° 78-17 du 6 janvier 1978 relative à l'informatique, aux fichiers et aux libertés]] [[https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCode.do?idSectionTA=LEGISCTA000030934655&cidTexte=LEGITEXT000025503132|Livre VIII du code de la sécurité intérieure]]|| || || Is part of... (overarching community) || Commonwealth of Australia || European Union || European Union || (European Union) status unclear x^3^ || --- || European Union || European Economic Area (part of the EU's internal market without being members of the EU) || || Assurers in [[https://secure.cacert.org/wot.php?id=1|directory]] || 30 (73) || 2391 || 214 || 96 || 257 || 119 || 1 || || Language || English || German || German || English || German, French, Italian, Romanch (following seat) x^4^<
><
>''"Werden Belege in einer Sprache eingereicht, die nicht als Amtssprache des Kantons gilt, so kann das Handelsregisteramt eine Übersetzung verlangen, sofern dies für die Prüfung oder für die Einsichtnahme durch Dritte erforderlich ist. Soweit nötig, kann es die Übersetzerin oder den Übersetzer bezeichnen. Die Übersetzung gilt diesfalls ebenfalls als Beleg." (Art. 20 HrgV=Handelsregisterverordnung)'' '''in English:''' Are documents filed in a language which is not treated as an official language of the Canton, the commercial registry office may request a translation, if this is necessary for the examination or for inspection by third parties ''(for English unlikely)''. Where necessary, it may refer to the translator or the translator. The translation shall be viewed also as evidence. || French || German || || Legal system || Common law || Germanistic civil law || Germanistic civil law || Common law || Germanistic to Napoleonic influence civil law || French civil law || || || IBAN/SEPA || {-} / {-} || {+} / {+} || {+} / {+} || {+} / {+} || {+} / {+} || {+} / {+} || {+} / {+} || || Costs register entry || (NSW) || Notar €25, Register €50, Anzeige €10-30 = €85-105 || Anzeige €15 + Beilagen €4-22 + Spruchgebühr €6.50 = €25-40 || (UK) || no association register (free)<
><
>commercial register (voluntary): Fr.400 (depends on canton) x^4^ || (F) || Fr. 100 (+ commercial register, if needed) || || Costs change register (e.g. new committee member) || (NSW) || (D) || (A) || (UK) || only if in commerial register Fr. 40 per person (depends on canton) x^4^ || (F) || (FL) || . x^1^) yes with no restrictions by default, except persons that act against country's Constitution (veto process) . x^2^) link through [[http://www.cacert.org/index.php?id=10|Privacy Policy]] . x^3^) after vote on June, 23th 2016, the government can (but must not) ask to leave the European Union . x^4^) without commercial register entry (only necessary for commercial operation) without relevance for CAcert Inc. ---- == Inputs & Thoughts == . 20110722-Piers . {{{ The main reason for the move is that the minimum national directors restriction of AU Association rules, together with the fact that the majority of members are located within the EU, results in an artificial over-representation of AU members on the board. It is urgent because we cannot guarantee enough AU members willing to be board members in the near future. }}} . 20110722-INOPIAE . {{{ Michael S. as German lawyer, who is active for OpenOffice, offered help by founding a German association. }}} . 20110807-u60 . {{{ Policys, rules, agreements, laws needs to be checked if a move is "allowed" or a rule or policy prevents this: - CAcert Community Agreement (contracts between each Community member and CAcert Inc) - other policies? e.g. Security Policy? (see also Security Manual!), CPS [1], [2] - Inc Rules - 5, 44 ?? - AU Association rules? - AU Privacy Act - European Privacy Act (was it DPA? see board discussion end of 2009) - Association rules of targeted country }}} . [1] [[http://www.cacert.org/policy/CertificationPracticeStatement.php]] . [2] [[http://www.cacert.org/policy/CertificationPracticeStatement.php#p5.8]] * {-} The CA cannot be transferred to another organisation. /!\ {-} * CPS Status: DRAFT p20091108 . 20130311 - Benedikt H. . {{{ Other possible association forms: * Foundation in one EU country * European Co-operative }}} . 20151229-Etienne . {{{ I was told by some people, that there is no way to move an association from NSW to another country. I found just the follwing information that tells otherwise: * [[http://www.unternehmenssitz.ch/gesellschaftsverlegung|from and to Switzerland (in German)]] * [[http://www.winheller.com/gemeinnuetzigkeitsrecht/vereinsrecht-verbandsrecht/sitzverlegung.html|from and to Germany (in German)]] * [[http://www.schuetz-rechtsanwaelte.ch/downloads/publikationen/bak_sitzverlegung.pdf|from Switzerland to Canada (in German, PDF)]] }}} . 20160420-alex-uk . {{{ Some of the tax havens worth considering - good on privacy and international companies - Cayman Isles/Barbado/Bermuda }}} . 20160602-Etienne . {{{ Switzerland could accept statutes in English (see above). }}} . 20160705-piers . {{{ Just a left-of-field suggestion: how about CAcert becomes a DAO (distributed autonomous organisation) with a blockchain based system holding assurance/reputation. Then there is no need for a country-based association. }}} . YYYYMMDD-YourName . {{{ Text / Your Statements, thoughts and e-mail snippets, Please }}} ---- . [[CategoryCAcertInc]]