agm20100130.4.1 Internal Dispute Resolution

Result - CARRIED

• CARRIED

  accepted by AGM:

  agm20100130.4.1

Introduction

1(1) Policies of the community are now relevant to the members of the association. (This also allows Assurance Policy to define the membership, so has a bearing on AGM/RuleChange/AssurersAsMembers.)

1(1) Definition of a CA.

11. The substance of this motion: the old dispute resolution process of going to a "Community Justice Center" in Australia is dropped, and we will use a CAcert Arbitration to resolve disputes.

This is for exactly the same logic as why we have Arbitration in the first place. Statistically, all disputes will be between someone overseas and someone else. Anyone who is outside Australia will not be able to afford the flight to get to this special place, so they are shut out. So in effect, this puts in place our cheap and efficient dispute resolution, the one we already have, and know works.

• resolution submitted 20100106

  • resolution 20100106.old withdrawn

Motion Carried (New Text)

• agm20100130.4.1

  do not make changes

By inserting the following additional definitions at rule 1(1):

 a Policy means a reference to the Policies of the Community duly passed to at least DRAFT under CAcert Community's Policy on Policy
 a Certificate Authority is an entity that issues digital certificates for use by other parties

By deleting rule 11, and inserting in its place:

11. Resolution of internal disputes
(1) Disputes between members (in their capacity of members) of the
    association and disputes between members and the association, 
    are to be dealt with in accordance with the association's Dispute
    Resolution Policy.

By deleting clause 7(2), and inserting in its place:

(2) A member of the association may resign from membership of the association by giving to the secretary written or digitally signed email notice to resign. On acceptance of the resignation, the member ceases to be a member. Acceptance may only be delayed under rule 11.

Old Text

11      Resolution of internal disputes
(1) Disputes between members (in their capacity as members) of the association, and disputes between members and the association, are to be referred to a community justice centre for mediation in accordance with the Community Justice Centres Act 1983.
(2) At least 7 days before a mediation session is to commence, the parties are to exchange statements of the issues that are in dispute between them and supply copies to the mediator.

Comments

• DanielBlack: One interesting question, though not sufficient to eliminate the benefit of this is, the committee had the right and obligation to override arbitrations if it was required to comply with Law. Having a rule that allows arbitrations to be held over the committee would get very ugly if the determination was illegal. Maybe I'm analyzing this too much.

  • Iang Any Arbitration gets ugly if the ruling is against the law, and likely any court would strike down an illegal ruling. Probably later Arbitrations could reverse?

  • The DRP does state somewhere that Arbitrators are to follow the policies and the law.

  • that said, the conflict between the Association's committee and the Arbitrator's ruling(s) is a core issue. But I believe it is one best seen in the context of the three-way structure of CAcert: committee/executive -- policy/legislature -- arbitration/judiciary. Conflicts will happen, but the design is such that no one body is clearly above the other two in all ways. In that sense, it is a feature as much as a bug.

• DanielBlack: The definition of a CA is related to the conflict of interest rule change so perhaps placing it there is clearer.

  • AlexanderPrinsier: yes I believe that would be better.

  • Iang: as this is linked to another rule-change, and is therefore complicated, I suggest ignoring this part for now.

• DanielBlack: Suggest amending rule 7 resignation so that resignation of the association cannot take place while a member is involved in a dispute.

  • AlexanderPrinsier: I'll second that.

• Iang OK, how about this:

By deleting clause7(2), and inserting in its place:

(2) A member of the association who has paid all amounts payable by the member to the association in respect of the member's membership, and is not named in any ongoing dispute under rule 7, may resign from membership of the association by first giving to the secretary written or digitally signed email notice of at least one month (or such other period as the committee may determine) of the member's intention to resign and, on the expiration of the period of notice, the member ceases to be a member.

• To emphasise the change:

  • "membership, and is not named in any ongoing dispute under rule 7, may resign"

  If agreed, let's go with it. The clock is ticking . . .

• Iang following comments from Wytze, I changed immediate above to:

(2) A member of the association may resign from membership of the association by giving to the secretary written or digitally signed email notice to resign. On acceptance of the resignation, the member ceases to be a member. Acceptance may only be delayed under rule 11.